The meeting is set for October 18 from 5:30 p.m. in the amphitheater of the Princess Grace Hospital Center for an exchange with the philosopher Isabelle Alfandary around the question of the desire to have children. A theme which will stimulate a series of workshops open to the general public on questions surrounding motherhood and supported by the Monaco Philosophical Meetings.
It is a desire of the president, Charlotte Casiraghi, who since 2015 has made this entity a place of debate in the Principality, where the floor is opened on various themes and social questions. Interview.
It is a hallmark of the Philosophical Meetings to go beyond the traditional framework. Do you think the location influences the content of an exchange?
Yes, the place permeates the discussion and in this case, it was necessary on this theme of maternity to do it at the CHPG to reach out more to the nursing staff, to integrate them into the discussion. The hospital schedules make it not easy to get around, it was up to us to come. The goal is also to humanize the hospital, to show that it is not just a place where you come because you are sick and where you have to take an exam. It is a place where our humanity is at stake. When we experience going through the hospital, we are confronted with the human condition, with important ethical issues. With these workshops, we bring the human sciences within the hospital to show that they have their place alongside the hard, medical sciences.
This cycle was built with the CHPG maternity service around its themes. Why this desire?
There are important feminist issues surrounding motherhood. The question of women’s bodies and its representation is essential today. We can see that many illnesses that affect women are invisible, that many issues that concern women’s bodies are not debated and thought regarding enough. Having studied philosophy, I was always amazed to see how women’s bodies were not treated philosophically at all. And that this experience of pregnancy, of childbirth, of birth, so crucial, was not thought of philosophically. It is very important today to have this space for reflection. Often, many women say they have felt as if they were losing their subjectivity in this experience of motherhood where we have the impression of being overcome by things that are beyond us.
It’s a political subject too…
Indeed, much more political issues, diktats, can intervene. This idealization and mystification of the maternal body weighs heavily on women. Many of them say that they hated being pregnant, that it was not a pleasant time, although this is not the case for all of them. Today a woman is faced with a whole bunch of injunctions in society, which are difficult to face. Many women realize the burden of having a female body when they are pregnant or are faced with questions regarding their fertility.
There is no taboo subject for philosophy, you have to face the questions, even if they are painful. The idea is not to enter into intimate confessions. Philosophy provides a reassuring framework, it is a questioning that goes beyond one’s own situation.
The meeting on October 18 will discuss the desire to have a child. A question as intimate as it is universal…
This theme is not only aimed at women who wish to have a child. It’s a fundamental question, whether you have children or not, which affects all women. And all these questions concern men. We will also offer a session on the father’s perspective.
“Things need to move, certain subjects need to be debated more”
The Meetings have the ability to offer discussions on all subjects, even the most taboo. Do you think that these exchanges can infuse a Monegasque society, considered rather conservative?
I have the impression that we were able to open spaces for discussion and confrontation. I have felt for several years that something is moving. The idea is to open the debate without a reading grid that would be too rigid on a subject. I think we need this flexibility of thought. Concerning the conservative side of Monegasque society, it is not conservative on all themes. But on issues related to the status of women, there is still a lot of work to do. I accept my point of view, things need to change, certain subjects need to be debated more. The CHPG maternity ward is a place where important feminist issues are at play. For me, it’s a commitment to come and think in a place where there are almost all the patriarchal stereotypes regarding the way we think regarding women’s bodies. It’s a way of taking things head on. We can say that men and women are equal in law, but this experience of the body, linked to the possibility or not of carrying a child, determines many things and raises a lot of questions from which we cannot escape. And there is still a lot of work to be done to address them.
Are you considering other places in the Principality to offer exchanges?
A lot (smile) but the commitment that I wish to give to the Meetings is to be in places of education and care as a priority. Intervening in schools, in hospitals, seems important to me and we hope to give the image of an embodied philosophy. Philosophy is not abstraction, it talks regarding life and our lives and not just regarding concepts. If it serves any purpose, it is not to give answers but to give meaning to our actions, to our practices, to seek meaning together since we are not all alone. We think with the philosophers who preceded us but we also think with several, that’s important.
Take the drama out of coming to the hospital to open it up to the city
At the heart of the design of the future hospital, the general director of the CHPG, Benoîte Rousseau-de Sevelinges enthusiastically welcomes the Rencontres Philosophiques team who will take over the amphitheater five times this season. An unusual place to welcome the general public for conferences.
Support for caregivers
“Precisely, we are trying to take the drama out of coming to the hospital. On the one hand, because anxiety and stress are a barrier to access to care. On the other hand, because opening the hospital to the city, this is an important theme in the perspective of the new building”, confirms Benoîte Rousseau-de Sevelinges. Who aspires to the future CHPG crossed by “a completely open avenue with a kindergarten, a real catering business, exhibitions. The object being to bring civilian life into the hospital to enrich the lives of the sick.”.
During confinement, the CHPG management offered philosophical workshops and access to the video and podcast resources of the Philosophical Meetings to healthcare staff. “This helped the teams a lot, especially people who, originally, would never have opted for this discipline.”.
The format of the workshops imagined at the CHPG this season will thus combine the general public and nursing staff.
“The hospital is a natural place for meetings between patients and caregivers, usually in the context of care, but here, precisely, the interest is to meet to discuss something else, in a different context,” supports Professor Bruno Carbonne, head of the gynecology-obstetrics department at the CHPG, who chose to join the Meetings.
“This openness to philosophical subjects is saving and useful for caregivers. Medicine can seem technical. And these workshops appear to be a very concrete, practical project, not intellectualist”.
On October 18, the exchange will be devoted to the desire for children. To follow: lived experiences of the pregnant body (November 15), the father’s gaze (December 13), pregnancy and childbirth in the era of biotechnology (January 10), the invisible mental burden of mothers (March 13) and what is maternal love (April 3).
Themes ignored by medical studies
“All these themes of maternity are largely ignored in medical studies. These are not necessarily subjects on which patients will perceive us as valid interlocutors,” continues Professor Carbonne, who confirms that he often encounters patients who have just given birth to a child and “subject to this societal injunction” to be happy.
“The time of the consultation does not allow all the subjects to be addressed, it is important to open this reflection”.
Benoîte Rousseau-de Sevelinges, general director of the CHPG. DR.Professor Bruno Carbonne, head of the gynecology-obstetrics department at the CHPG.DR.
