However, the reception of the performance in the homeland and abroad is different. In Ukraine, there is no talk of pacifism prevalent in the West. “Pacifism is something that is absolutely not available to us, Ukrainians. I was also a pacifist before, I’m a very peaceful person, I don’t want war, but now everything has changed”, says Nina Khyzhna, who herself, together with her colleagues and friends Artiom Vusykas, Dmytro Tretiaks and Vladyslava Chentsova, will perform in two screenings of “Today nobody died” in Vilnius on October 10 and 11 days.
– What did you want to say to the foreign audience with this performance?
– I created the performance in Austria during my artistic residency in December 2022. After that we showed it in Germany and Ukraine, but otherwise it was created for a foreign audience, during the performance we are talking to people who are not insiders. It worked in Ukraine as well.
I think that theater is an art form that has access to the body, creates a common presence in one space, which no other art can do. We tell our stories and those of our friends who joined the army or volunteer or work in the cultural field, but I fully understand that it is absolutely impossible to convey some experiences, but in this case there is no need. However, during the performance, you can create closeness between people.
I believe that our physical experiences greatly affect how we behave, how we react to certain things, how our cognitive abilities are formed, how we perceive, how we accept different topics or ideologies. For example, pacifism is something that is absolutely not available to us, Ukrainians. Pascal Gielen wrote that there is no pacifism in bomb shelters. When you hear explosions on a physical level everything changes, our bodies are nervous systems connected to our brains. I was also a pacifist, I’m a very peaceful person, I don’t want war, but it’s been almost three years (oh God) a lot has changed on a cognitive level. Unfortunately, we now understand that sometimes we have no choice but to fight for peace, for the right to be a pacifist with weapons in our hands.
Sometimes it is difficult to talk about these topics abroad, because those who live in a safe environment, such statements sound disturbing. Even if you live in peace, you must be ready for war. If you want to protect human values, basic human rights, you have to kill. And it’s not something we chose or wanted to do. It’s complicated.
– How does the audience abroad and in Ukraine receive this performance? Do you see more similarities or differences?
– Inside Ukraine, we have very different experiences and it is not possible to easily understand what another person is going through. We learn not to compare experiences because it is dangerous. Of course there are differences. For example, when we showed the play in Austria, there was a discussion every time after the show, and it became a very important part of the show. There will be one discussion in Vilnius as well, I’m really looking forward to it, because I really like meetings with the audience.
If you want to protect human values, basic human rights, you have to kill.
So in Austria and Germany a lot of people said, “Thank you, I understand things more clearly now.” Because, after all, there are many common narratives in the West, such as “Enough, let’s stop the killings, let’s give part of the territory to Russia and everything will be over, of course, not the capital, but maybe some villages” or “Ukraine does not have enough power to win” and so on. Viewers in those countries said that they, too, used those narratives and did not understand how Russian propaganda infiltrated people’s minds unwillingly, unconsciously. And of course, they talk about pacifism. But it sounds ironic when said from a position of privilege.
– It seems that there are fewer narratives encouraging Ukraine to surrender in Lithuania, people here understand the situation better because they know the Kremlin’s propaganda and how Russia works. And Lithuanians very actively supported Ukraine, but in the long run, the involvement fades, the interest in news about the war is not so great, people avoid the topics, it seems that there is fatigue. How do you feel? Aren’t you tired?
– We have no choice. Of course we are all tired, but when I think of my friends in the trenches, I can’t compare. And to be honest, their work inspires me. Or the examples of people who gave their lives give me the strength to live in Ukraine and even be privileged to create theater. I think it’s important to find another way to share what’s going on. I always feel like a party wrecker – when everyone is having fun and they ask me where I’m from, I say I’m from Ukraine and everyone gets serious. I don’t want to be that kind of person, but on the other hand, I can’t help talking about the war, I have to increase the understanding of others about what is happening.
Photo by Mariya Donska/Performance “Today nobody died”
Unfortunately, this is not just Putin’s war. And it is not only related to Ukraine. This is an ideological war, Putin was inspired by Ivan Ilyin, an orthodox fascist. And another ideologue, Alexander Dugin, they worked on the Eurasian construct and want to destroy the idea of Europe. Our aim is to warn all Europeans that we are all at risk. Peace, which is so fragile, must be strongly guarded daily. For Ukrainians, peace is no longer an abstract concept, it is a very concrete algorithm, small daily steps and real actions. This cannot be protected by meetings or round table discussions. Now it is too late to be a pacifist and seek soft power.
And to the audience in Vilnius, which is perhaps tired of the war, I would say that I understand that very well. We were looking for a way not to retell the stories because we are tired of that too. We put a lot of body language into the performance, which is new every time and only happens here and now. Between us and the audience. Before every performance, I review the text to see if I need to change anything. Unfortunately, everything is still relevant.
I still dream about death almost every day. Kharkiv is still under attack, there have been many new waves where this city has been heavily attacked in different ways and now it is under attack. Well, we have to change the fact that one of the actors – Dmytro – used to say that he is a volunteer, and now he has recently joined the armed forces of Ukraine, he is already a soldier. We hope that his commander will send him to Vilnius to play, Dima got permission, but things can change in the army.
– You have actually touched on another important topic. How did you go about doing this play in wartime in a foreign country?
– In the first six months after the full-scale invasion, it was easier for men to travel. We got permission from the Ministry of Culture and they came to Austria to create the project because it was important politically and contributed to cultural diplomacy. And a little later, the rules became stricter, so we performed at one festival in Germany without guys – only Vlad and I performed. We show them via video broadcast. Now the Sirens Festival, in cooperation with the Institute of Culture of Ukraine, is helping us to get permits. We really hope that we will be able to cross the border, because the border guards may not allow the men to leave. We can’t rehearse now because Dima is in the army. We will all meet in Vilnius.
– Movement is very important in this performance. Why? Is it a universal language, does it convey your message more easily, or is it a more acceptable means of expression that allows you to get rid of stress?
– I think everything you listed. We feel that many words have lost their meaning. Or the meanings have changed. Now it is difficult to name, convey, form an idea. Using your body makes it easier. Every time you hear an explosion or read terrible news, you feel at a loss for words. They lost power. They don’t work, they can’t convey what I feel. In addition, the body has the power to form a somatic resonance with other bodies in the same space – a sense of unity, of being together, is created.
That feeling is very important to us, it creates the illusion of security. It is much easier to survive difficulties when you are together, then there is less stress in the body. As soon as we started making this play, we did retrospective sessions. Movement by movement, we worked with what we experienced, trying to find a corporeal text for those experiences. It was a profound experience for all of us as a group, as friends (we have been working together in Kharkiv for many years).
Photo by Mariya Donska/Performance “Today nobody died”
After another performance, in which we also use corporeal texts, a soldier came up to us, he was very grateful and wept. He said he didn’t know how to talk about what he was going through and we helped him find those codes. Theater can unblock some taboos – it allows you to feel anger, hatred. All of this can be expressed here and it helps people work with their emotions.
– What other reactions have you received in Ukraine?
– Our friends serving in the army were also in the performance, they said that it is very important that their stories are visible. It is important for them to understand that they are heard and seen abroad. The moment of testimony is very significant. Witnessing events makes your existence real and your feelings grounded.
The fact that we use English in the play introduces an outside observer, when Ukrainians listen to the play in English, they understand that their stories are being told to foreigners, and they feel that someone there is listening to them. It gives a new perspective, validates the experiences of us, Ukrainians, gives the realization that it shouldn’t be like this, it’s wrong, it’s abnormal. And it also gives a sense of well-being. Usually, when the play is shown abroad, I don’t cry, but during the performance in Ukraine, everyone cried, and so did we. There was this general mourning on one physical level. It was a completely different performance, although the words and movements were the same as abroad.
Of course, I don’t think that theater should take the place of psychotherapists. But as one teacher said, there are not enough therapists in Ukraine, so the theater works in this field as well, of course, it cannot replace psychologists, but it has such a side effect. It helps viewers to acknowledge and integrate their own experiences.
– Can you tell us more about the independent theater NAFTA where you work?
– That independent theater platform in Kharkiv, created in 2017, was founded by Artiomas Vusek (who also plays “Today no one died”), I and Tatiana Holoduva also work there. Before the war there were 40 people, now there are about 10 of us: actors and administration. This platform brings together artists from various fields to create plays and performances. In Ukraine, there are problems with state theaters that work like factories – the director comes with his ideas and themes and dictates it to the actors.
Although some may find it completely uninteresting or unacceptable. And such independent structures as NAFTA have no hierarchy, so we make open calls, we invite everyone who is interested in certain topics or developers to work for us, no need to be appointed. We position ourselves as a social and political theater because we work with political contexts, we have no choice.
We work with the trauma of Russification, because Kharkiv is very close to the Russian border. 90 percent the townspeople speak Russian. We had to admit that the language was not our choice, that it was a trauma. Now we need to work on our identity, to recover our history, because the Russians erased entire pages and the names of very important Ukrainian personalities, killed writers, painters, directors. Had to open everything up again and get it back. So our theater works a lot with that legacy, creating a place where we would like to live.
– What kind of theater would you like to see in Ukraine in 10 years? What would you wish for him?
– I would like to see a completely different theater, so that it would be diverse. I don’t want Ukraine to be a monocultural country. In order for the country to develop, it needs to be a multi-cultural, multi-religious, secular state, I think that the theater must also work with those contexts and of course, I would like to see a socially conscious theater, responsible, with a critical approach, separated from the Russian drama school and from Stanislavsky, who colonized the Ukrainian theater. We have great things to draw from playwrights like Skurba and other authors who have worked with avant-garde, experimental texts….
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#Ukrainian #play #director #N.Khyzhna #Talks #pacifism #sound #ironic #privileged #position #Culture
