NPR’s Scott Simon engages in a compelling conversation with the innovative director Mati Diop about her poignant new documentary, “Dahomey.” The film poignantly chronicles the remarkable return of royal treasures that were plundered by French colonial forces during their occupation.
SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
The documentary film “Dahomey” intricately tells the story of return, spotlighting the restitution of stolen royal artifacts. These 26 remarkable pieces were among the thousands taken by French colonial troops in the late 19th century from the historic kingdom of Dahomey, which is present-day the Republic of Benin in West Africa. For decades, the looted treasures remained on display in Paris, but a significant turning point occurred in 2021 when these invaluable artifacts were meticulously loaded into crates and flown back to their homeland. Mati Diop, the French Senegalese film director, skillfully captures this profound journey in her documentary, which earlier this year was honored with the prestigious Golden Bear prize at the Berlin Film Festival. Now, Mati Diop joins us from our NPR West studios. Thank you so much for being here.
MATI DIOP: Thank you for having me.
SIMON: I understand that you felt a profound duty to create this film. Can you elaborate on that feeling?
DIOP: Yes, I believe it’s very important to document this historical moment. Most of the archives from Africa have been captured through the lens of colonizers, which is why it’s crucial for us to take ownership of our narratives through cinema. This is what I mean when I refer to my sense of duty.
SIMON: While this is a documentary, it also features dramatized moments. Notably, you gave voice to one of the statues.
(SOUNDBITE OF DOCUMENTARY, “DAHOMEY”)
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As statue of King Ghezo, non-English language spoken).
SIMON: “We all bear the same scars,” it says, “uprooted, ripped out…”
(SOUNDBITE OF DOCUMENTARY, “DAHOMEY”)
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As statue of King Ghezo, non-English language spoken).
SIMON: “…The spoils of massive plundering.” Why did you choose to give voice to the statues in this way, and how did you determine what they might express?
DIOP: For me, the essential action of creating this film was to restore a narrative—a voice, a language, a sense of power, and subjectivity to these artifacts that had long been stripped of their stories. I wanted to ensure these objects were seen as subjects with agency, possessing their own perspectives. This approach is also why I chose to film them from the first sequence at the Museum of Quai Branly before their departure—to allow the audience to experience the journey of return from the artifacts’ perspectives.
SIMON: A significant portion of your film captures the voices of students in Benin discussing the importance of the royal artifacts’ return. What insights surprised you most during these discussions?
DIOP: What struck me most was the unique quality of listening inherent in Beninese culture that I observed during these debates. Rather than simply imposing their viewpoints, participants engaged with one another by genuinely listening to alternate perspectives. This depth of listening greatly enriches and complicates the debates.
SIMON: It’s heart-wrenching to witness the film’s depiction of numerous artworks from Dahomey, neglected and collecting dust in file drawers. How do you respond to the argument from some museum professionals in places like London, Paris, and New York, who contend that at least keeping the artwork intact in such facilities offers some value?
DIOP: While I understand that perspective, I feel it diverts from the root issue. Deliberating whether to keep them or to return them obscures the broader social and political dialogue that needs to be addressed. The level of denial regarding colonial legacies and responsibilities is something France must confront, as there’s much at stake for them in deconstructing this narrative.
SIMON: Finally, should museums and educational institutions in Europe return all artworks pillaged during colonial times, or is there merit in maintaining access in Paris for artifacts from Benin?
DIOP: In my view, the nature of that question itself is problematic. It reflects a mindset that accepts the status quo of colonial possession. To frame the discussion as whether each artifact should be returned overlooks the fact that we are discussing only 26 items in contrast to the over a million African artifacts that remain expropriated. To question if they should all be returned feels somewhat provocative and dismissive of the profound loss experienced by those who were dispossessed of these artifacts.
SIMON: Mati Diop is the director of the enlightening new film “Dahomey.” Thank you for sharing your insights with us.
DIOP: Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF SAMBA TOURE’S “WHITE CROCODILE BLUES”)
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
