2023-09-21 13:16:00
DE/SEMBLE is a festival that breaks with classical performance practice in many ways. The festival’s founder, REGINA FISCH, and her two curating partners MONA MATBOU RIAHI and KATHARINA FENNESZ are pursuing new experimental approaches in terms of programming as well as content and music. Her aim is to question and reinterpret the established roles in jazz, especially with regard to gender-specific aspects. In an interview with Michael Ternai, the three talk regarding the goals of the festival, breaking down traditional structures and how they want to bring jazz closer to an audience that is previously less familiar with this music. The next event as part of the DE/SEMBLE festival will take place on September 29th in the Vienna Theater Hamakom.
You started your festival last June. With your festival you want to break with conventional ideas regarding jazz – especially with regard to the role of female musicians in this genre. Where exactly do you start?
Regina Fish: The concept that I wrote last summer dealt specifically with the instrumentation. Namely with regard to the stereotypical attribution of male and female instruments. This idea is basically the basis for this project.
At the same time, we quickly realized that we wanted to bring in a lot more intersections and not do another FLINTA festival. We wanted to engage with these things in an artistically critical manner and therefore book certain instruments and people, but without bringing gender into the foreground. Our goal is simply to have more awareness of who is playing at our festival.
Katharina Fennesz: The festival is simply intended to give people something to think regarding. But not by consciously pointing it out to them. This should happen automatically when the audience sees the musicians on stage. Why is it strange to me that there is suddenly a woman sitting behind the drums? We try to guide people to this topic very subconsciously. And then maybe that will make a difference.
Mona Matbou Riahi: The so-called wow effect often occurs when a woman plays an instrument that is more commonly associated with men. “Wow, she plays well” is often heard as if it were completely unusual for a woman to be able to play at such a high level. This is by no means unusual. There are enough female musicians who are excellent at their instruments. What is missing so far, however, are platforms that make this widely visible. It would be nice if our festival might help ensure that at some point the audience will only judge the quality of the play, regardless of whether it is performed by a man or a woman. However, we would like to achieve this without any major announcements.
“Sustainability also plays a big role for us.”
That means breaking with conventions is part of the program.
Regina Fish: It is very important to us to put people in connections and contexts that we have not seen before. And sometimes the instrument isn’t really in the foreground. It’s not that we’re stuck on only showing women playing supposedly male instruments. Sustainability also plays a big role for us. Especially regarding a fairer presentation.
What exactly do you mean by fairer presentation?
Regina Fish: I often hear that when programming a festival, a band with a woman is needed at the end so that we don’t end up with a program exclusively made up of men. This approach is not sustainable and seems a bit artificial. With our festival we would like to help break down this thinking.
Mona Matbou Riahi: When I talk to colleagues, two schools of thought often emerge. Some see it as their job to promote women in this area and to increasingly integrate them into lineups, and I find that very positive. On the other hand, there are also organizers who have already booked their acts and only realize at the end that they still need a band with women for their program. It’s just regarding having the right attitude. Does someone act this way because it is “in” at the moment, or does someone really believe in sustainable change in this regard? Our goal as curators is to take the audience along and present them with things that may be unfamiliar to them. It is important to us to celebrate the artists on stage equally.
How do you explain why people are still stuck in this way of thinking today?
Katharina Fennesz: I think this is primarily a structural problem. At the top there are mostly men who have their male bookers and promoters, and so it goes. This hierarchy of course solidifies the situation. The more those affected, regardless of their discrimination position, are given special roles at festivals, the more the whole thing breaks down. And maybe you’ll even reach an audience that you want to reach. It shouldn’t remain the case that mainly white and male people go to concerts because they only appeal to them. However, this is not only the case in jazz, but also in the entire Austrian music scene in general. I find it very unfortunate that so many white men still hold the reins and decide who plays where and when. And then occasionally there are women who, because they already have a certain level of fame, are basically brought in to supplement the lineup so that it can be said: “We also have women in the lineup.” This structure is very narrow and ultimately always appeals to the same people. We would like to break out of this structure with our festival. We may be a small festival, but I still believe we can make a difference.
“It is also very important to us to address a new audience”
Something that sets your festival apart from others is that it is divided into several parts, with events spread throughout the year in different locations. What is the idea behind that?
Regina Fish: This festival idea actually came regarding following this concept, the idea of hosting multiple events instead of one big festival to build something sustainable. We would like to show different concepts on how to do something like this. It’s also very important to us to reach a new audience, one that isn’t exclusively into jazz and doesn’t always go to the same venues. For example, our first event took place in the art gas station, which was actually an old gas station. I find it very exciting to use such unusual spaces for jazz, which is perceived by some as elitist.
So you want to take away people’s fears of jazz.
Regina Fish: Exactly. In my environment, I have the impression that many people believe that jazz concerts are associated with a certain attitude. You have to know the music well in order to enjoy it. However, this is not the case. Any person can go to a concert and be surprised. A goal of FROM/SEEMS is to make jazz concerts more accessible to people who previously had little to do with jazz.
“Ultimately the question arises as to what jazz actually is.”
Should this succeed? FROM/SEEMS is now not just a pure jazz festival, but also incorporates other musical styles, especially electronic, into the format?
Mona Matbou Riahi: It is actually very important to us to bring other scenes – such as the club scene – into the matter through collaborations. Through such collaborations, we hope to be able to build a larger community. And I believe that if we always focus on the idea of sustainability, we can do it.
Katharina Fennesz: This opens up new connections and relationships. Visitors often come to a jazz concert with certain expectations, but during the concert it becomes clear that jazz is much more diverse. Afterwards, the guests are even invited to the followingparty, where they will be presented with something completely new by us or a collective we work with.
Our focus is on exploring how the different worlds can be linked together. We can learn a lot from club culture, as in this world the boundaries are often not so pronounced – at least much less so than in jazz.
Regina Fish: At our kickoff we found that the concept was well received. It didn’t seem like people were particularly surprised or irritated either. These two aspects did not lead to a complete break, but rather they merged harmoniously.
Initiatives that have already done valuable work in this area are of course a great source of inspiration for us. We would therefore like to strengthen collaboration with other initiatives in order to continually bring new elements into the project and expand the pool of collaborations.
Mona Matbou Riahi: Ultimately the question arises as to what jazz actually is. At some point this term was coined by someone to give the music a name for marketing reasons. At the end of the day, jazz is a form of expression. If you look at the history of jazz, it’s always regarding breaking out of fixed molds and predetermined structures. Jazz is a way of life, it shows how to live, move and form connections with other people. Jazz was and still is a movement that fought once morest social injustices and undesirable developments.
During the kickoff event, we deliberately didn’t specify what type of music each act would play. Instead we said: “Just come and take what you like.” During the evening someone stood next to me who suddenly said: “I really like jazz.” In fact, you don’t actually need to know exactly what kind of music it is to enjoy jazz.
Katharina Fennesz: You don’t always have to think so much regarding what you’re listening to. You can learn a little something new by going somewhere you wouldn’t normally be. If that doesn’t happen, nothing will ever be expanded, neither your own horizons nor those of the audience.
What does the exchange with the city’s jazz institutions actually look like?
Regina Fish: At the moment we still have the freedom to act quite flexibly and to perform in places that give us the opportunity to implement our ideas and support us in doing so. In the future, however, our goal is certainly to have a dialogue with the institutions. I think the jazz scene in Vienna is extremely fascinating and lively. It is gratifying to observe how musicians can successfully appeal to different target groups – both those who are closer to classic institutions and those who prefer new places. They master both the traditional framework and more experimental approaches.
During our first event, I found it interesting that many viewed it as a type of intervention. We actually didn’t have that claim at all. But it shows that musicians found our format to be something new that can also be implemented in other places. This is definitely one of our goals.
Katharina Fennesz: One of our strengths or advantages is that the three of us actually have different professional backgrounds. We have had very different experiences. For example, I don’t come from a jazz background, but I, like the others, can bring something new to the table. It is precisely from this diversity that the aspect of change arises. Something new only emerges when you keep coming into contact with different people from different industries.
You want to bring jazz to other places. Now is FROM/SEEMS yes, supported by the city of Vienna. Does other places also mean other cities and countries?
Regina Fish: Basically, we have very ambitious goals. But we are supported by SHIFT, which means our focus is on the Viennese jazz scene. Nevertheless, we would also like to bring international artists and acts that inspire us to Vienna. This is already possible to some extent, and we hope that there will be even more possibilities in the future. Expansion to other cities is not our main goal for now. In addition, a certain gap has opened up in Vienna in the area of jazz festivals in recent years. There is less activity here at the international level than there was a few years ago. Just think of the Vienna Jazz Festival, which no longer takes place. We have therefore set ourselves the long-term goal of becoming an international festival.
Thank you very much for the interview!
Michael Ternai
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FROM/SEEMS
PLAY DATE
Festival for Jazz and Adventurous Music
29.09.2023 – 19:00
Theater Nestroyhof/
Hamakom
Tickets
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Links:
FROM/SEEMS
FROM/SEEMS (Instagram)
FROM/SEEMS (Facebook)
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