Dec 20 2024 This Week in Cardiology

Dec 20 2024 This Week in Cardiology

CCTA: A Global ​Viewpoint on Cardiac Imaging

In this⁣ week’s episode, cardiologist Dr. John Mandrola delves into the ongoing debate surrounding coronary computed ‍tomography angiography (CCTA)‌ as ​a⁣ diagnostic tool for suspected coronary artery disease (CAD). Dr. Mandrola recently sparked discussion‍ with his critical viewpoint on CCTA, notably its potential for ⁣overdiagnosis and unnecessary revascularization procedures in the United States.

dr. Mandrola acknowledges a strong rebuttal he ⁤received from Professor Bjarne Linde Nørgaard, a respected expert from Aarhus University Hospital in Denmark. Professor Nørgaard pointed out that Denmark, with its public healthcare system and emphasis on physician salaries ‌rather than procedure-based income, has successfully adopted⁢ CCTA as the preferred test for patients presenting with‌ new symptoms suggestive of ⁤CAD for over a decade.

Professor Nørgaard ‌argues that the⁢ key lies not in the test ‍itself but in its responsible⁢ implementation. He emphasizes that CCTA ⁢referrals in Denmark ⁢are ‌always initiated after a face-to-face consultation ⁤with a physician, ensuring appropriate patient selection and‌ minimizing the risk of unnecessary testing.

“In Denmark, CTA has been‍ the preferred test in patients with de novo ‌symptoms suggestive of CAD over the past more than 10 ⁢years.” — Professor Bjarne Linde Nørgaard

This international perspective​ highlights the crucial role ⁤of⁤ clinical judgment and⁣ responsible healthcare practices in maximizing ​the benefits of‍ CCTA while mitigating the potential for overuse.

Danish Cardiac CTA Use: A Model for Evidence-Based Practise?

the ⁣widespread ​use of cardiac computed tomography‌ angiography (CTA) has raised concerns about overuse and unnecessary testing. Recently,a cardiologist ​shared‌ their‍ experience ⁣with CTA in Denmark,highlighting a more measured approach that prioritizes⁣ patient well-being and evidence-based care. Since ⁢2015, denmark ⁣has⁢ seen a‍ decline in⁢ invasive catheterizations and PCI procedures following‌ the implementation of CTA ⁢as​ a first-line diagnostic tool. Dr. Niels Norgard, a ⁢cardiologist⁣ at Aarhus University Hospital, reports that despite a high rate of CAD ⁢diagnoses through⁤ CTA, only a small percentage of patients are referred for invasive‌ procedures. He​ attributes‍ this to a focus on optimal medical therapy (OMT) for stable CAD patients, even those with significant coronary artery disease. Dr. Norgard emphasizes ​the importance of a‍ tailored approach, considering factors like disease severity, ‍symptoms,​ patient⁤ preference, and the overall​ prognostic outlook. He notes that Denmark’s healthcare ⁣system, with ‌its emphasis on value-based care,​ facilitates this approach.

Lessons from Denmark

Dr. Norgard’s experience offers valuable insights for healthcare systems grappling with the appropriate use of advanced imaging‌ technologies. It⁣ underscores the need for a balanced approach that leverages diagnostic ⁢tools while prioritizing evidence-based decision-making and⁢ patient-centered care. His perspective highlights the potential benefits of aligning incentives⁤ within healthcare systems to promote cost-effective and‌ patient-focused strategies. It also underscores the importance of ongoing dialogue and knowledge sharing among healthcare professionals to promote ⁢best practices.

A Reminder About the DANCAVAS Trial

This discussion reminded me of a previous exchange with ‌Dr. ‌Axel Diederichsen,the principal investigator⁢ of the DANCAVAS trial ‍which explored the use of coronary artery ‌calcium (CAC) scoring in a‌ screening program. Dr. Diederichsen explained that in Denmark, finding CAC ​wasn’t a cause for alarm because it⁢ would lead to medical therapy, not a ⁣cascade of unnecessary tests and procedures. This reinforces ⁣the point ⁤that cultural and systemic factors play a significant role ‍in shaping healthcare practices.

Listener Feedback on the ‍OPTION Trial

A recent listener brought my attention to my negative take on the OPTION trial, which compared stroke and bleeding outcomes in patients who had atrial fibrillation​ (AF) ablation plus direct oral anticoagulants (DOACs) ⁢versus AF ablation​ plus left atrial appendage closure (LAAC). The trial presented positive ⁣results, showing noninferiority​ for​ efficacy ‌and​ superiority for⁤ bleeding reduction in the ‌LAAC arm.

Encouraging Skepticism in Medical Training

A recent conversation with a senior program director and a young doctor ​highlighted a concerning trend in medical training: the unquestioning acceptance of research findings, ⁤especially⁤ in keen presentations.This lack‌ of critical appraisal can mislead trainees and possibly impact patient care. The issue came to light when⁣ a trainee presented⁤ the OPTION trial, touting a⁢ new⁣ procedure as non-inferior to the standard approach for ⁢treating a ​specific condition. While ⁤the ​presentation ⁤and⁢ abstract⁢ conclusions received widespread applause, ​deeper analysis revealed significant ⁢flaws in‌ the trial’s methodology and endpoint selection.

“I appreciated your‌ take on the⁢ OPTION trial. Surely enough, we had a journal club ⁣this week from ‌one of our trainees who touted that we have an ‍option⁤ that is non-inferior to leaving ‍the LAA alone when ablation is offered. Sure ⁤enough, everyone on the virtual meeting call applauded the science/the presentation without inquiry, and then signed off.”

These concerns prompt a critical ​question: How can we encourage trainees to think critically⁤ and question research findings without fostering cynicism? There is no ⁤easy answer, but ‌fostering⁣ a culture of healthy skepticism is paramount. Here ⁣are some practical steps:
  • Encourage trainees to question ⁣basic methodology. For⁤ instance, in non-inferiority trials, probe the impact of‌ adding‍ death⁢ to a composite endpoint when death rates are likely unaffected‍ by either treatment.
  • Make‍ a robust discussion of⁣ limitations a cornerstone of every journal club session.
  • Showcase classic ⁣trials with medical reversals, like CAST and WHI, to demonstrate that established practices can change with new evidence. This approach aims to equip trainees with the critical‍ thinking skills to evaluate research,⁣ ensuring they⁣ rely ⁤on strong evidence rather than blind​ acceptance.

    AF​ Ablation Trials: A Call for More ‌Rigorous Evidence

    Some listeners have pointed ​out two recent ablation trials presented at the​ American Heart Association meeting that I did not discuss‍ on the podcast. While I acknowledge their ⁤existence, I chose to focus on other topics because these trials did not strike me as particularly groundbreaking. One of ​the ⁢trials, called PROMPT AF,⁤ published in ‍*JAMA*, compared pulmonary vein‌ isolation (PVI) alone versus ‍PVI plus‍ optimized linear ​ablation aided by‌ alcohol ⁤infusion into ​the vein of Marshall in⁣ patients with persistent ⁣atrial fibrillation. The clinical relevance here lies in the fact that​ patients with persistent AF often have less favorable outcomes after ablation compared to those with paroxysmal AF. The largest trial to‍ date, STAR-AF-2, found that in persistent AF, PVI alone yielded similar results to​ PVI combined with other ablation techniques. It’s crucial to ‍remember that only ‍two trials have ​shown ​modest improvements in efficacy when additional ablation‌ is added to ⁤PVI alone for persistent AF.

    Is Linear Ablation With⁢ ETOH Into the VOM Worth the Effort? New Trial Suggests Maybe Not

    Recent research into atrial fibrillation (AF) ⁣ablation has focused on improving⁢ outcomes by⁢ extending ablation beyond the pulmonary veins (PVI).Two notable trials, ⁣VENUS and PROMPT AF, explored the benefits of adding​ linear ablation with ethanol (ETOH) ⁤infusion​ into the veno-atrial junction (VOM). While both trials showed some ​benefit, significant⁣ limitations may make this​ approach less appealing⁤ for routine clinical practice.

    VENUS and PROMPT AF: A Closer Look

    The VENUS trial compared PVI alone to PVI plus VOM ablation using ETOH​ infusion. While⁤ the VOM group demonstrated better ⁣freedom from AF (49% vs. 38%),the difference wasn’t considerable (P-value = 0.04). PROMPT AF,a larger trial with over 500 patients,compared PVI alone to PVI plus ETOH infusion⁤ in the VOM,left atrial roof,and cavotricuspid ⁤isthmus.⁢ at one year, the linear⁣ ablation group showed a slightly higher freedom from AF (71% vs. 61.5%),⁤ but‌ this came with ⁤a​ higher incidence ​of pericardial ⁣complications (7 events‍ vs.0).

    Expert Commentary: Weighing the Risks⁢ and⁤ Benefits

    “My interpretation is that linear ablation with ETOH into the VOM is‌ a lot of work for very‍ little gain. Recurrence‍ rates of 30% vs 40% are ‍hardly​ clinically meaningful. There were also 7 pericardial events with the‍ extra ablation,” notes a leading expert in the field. While⁢ acknowledging the value of the VOM technique for ablating the mitral isthmus and eliminating⁣ peri-mitral flutter, the expert suggests that ​”PROMPT AF dose not convince me to⁢ adapt it for a normal⁣ workflow.” Furthermore, the expert highlights that ⁣⁢ subgroups with more advanced LA disease, which ⁣historically ⁣benefit from PVI alone, didn’t show greater advantage with the⁣ added ablation. This observation aligns with findings from the STAR AF 2 trial, showcasing the robustness of PVI ⁤even⁤ in complex cases.

    The‍ Future of LA⁢ Ablation: ​Pulsed Field Ablation (PFA)

    Looking ahead, ⁢the expert anticipates that‍ pulsed field ⁢ablation (PFA) will revolutionize LA ablation. “PFA⁣ will potentially‍ allow us⁣ to do more durable PVI, with posterior wall‍ isolation and or‌ roof lines.” This technology holds promise for achieving more thorough and lasting AF​ ablation, potentially rendering ETOH infusion into the VOM‌ obsolete.

    PVI: Still a Powerful tool in⁤ the Right ​Circumstances

    The expert concludes ⁢with a reminder: “PVI can be amazing ⁣for patients with minimal ⁤atrial disease ⁢who‌ have focal drivers from the PVs.‍ It’s almost curative.” This underscores the importance⁤ of tailoring ablation ​strategies to individual patient characteristics and disease patterns.

    New Insights into Atrial ​Fibrillation and Heart Failure ⁢Treatment

    this ⁣month, several studies shed light on ⁤promising, but complex, advancements in treating ⁣atrial fibrillation (AFib) and heart failure. Let’s dive into‌ the latest findings.

    The Limitations of Ablation for Persistent AFib

    While catheter ablation has‍ revolutionized ⁣AFib ⁣treatment, the CRRF-PeAF trial, conducted in multiple Japanese ⁣centers, raises questions about its efficacy for persistent AFib.⁤ Similar to the Fire and Ice trial,‍ which compared radiofrequency (RF)⁤ and cryoballoon (CB) ablation in patients with paroxysmal AFib,‌ CRRF-PeAF ‍found no significant‌ difference in freedom from AFib between the two techniques.Both techniques involved extensive ablation beyond pulmonary vein isolation (PVI), making it harder to pinpoint the ⁣true effects of ‌PVI. The ⁤results suggest that ⁤a one-size-fits-all approach to ​ablation might not be the answer for persistent AFib.

    Exploring SVC⁤ Isolation: Risks and Potential

    The CAVAC trial, a small randomized controlled​ trial from Spain, explored the potential benefits of adding ⁣superior vena cava (SVC) isolation to standard PVI using cryoballoon ablation.The ⁣rationale behind this approach stems from the ⁤idea that the SVC,‍ like the ‌pulmonary ‌veins, can harbor focal AFib drivers. Although⁣ the trial​ didn’t show a significant difference ⁤in AFib freedom between ⁢the two groups, a concerning side effect‌ emerged: phrenic nerve paralysis‌ occurred in one in five patients who underwent SVC isolation. Fortunately, most cases were temporary, and only one patient required permanent pacing due to ⁣sinus node injury. This highlights the potential hazards of SVC‍ isolation with cryoballoon ablation due to the proximity of ​the phrenic nerve. ⁢However, the authors⁢ suggest that further exploration of SVC isolation as an adjunct therapy‌ using pulsed‌ field ablation (PFA), which appears less likely to ⁢harm the phrenic nerve, might be warranted.

    Re-Examining ICD Efficacy in NICM Patients: A DANISH Substudy

    A post-hoc study published in Circulation sheds light on the​ efficacy of implantable cardioverter-defibrillators (ICDs) in patients with non-ischemic cardiomyopathy (NICM) based on left ventricular ejection fraction (LVEF). The authors, drawing from the DANISH trial, sought to⁢ examine​ the impact of primary​ prevention ICDs on various LVEF levels in NICM⁣ patients.While they stated that “there are ⁣no ‌detailed reports on the efficacy of ICD-implantation according to LVEF in patients with HFrEF,” ⁣this statement ‌overlooks ⁣notable studies like SCD-HeFT, ​which has provided substantial details on ‍this topic. The results of⁢ this substudy offer ‌valuable insights, but it’s important to consider the broader context of existing research in this field.

    Exploring the Link Between Ejection Fraction and ICD Benefit in Heart Failure Patients: Insights from the DANISH Substudy

    A new substudy of the DANISH trial delves into the‌ complex ​relationship between ejection fraction (EF) and the effectiveness⁣ of implantable cardioverter-defibrillators (ICDs)⁣ in heart failure patients. While the main DANISH trial did not show a statistically significant overall benefit for ICDs, this substudy sought to understand if EF levels ⁣impacted the device’s effectiveness in different patient subgroups.

    Key⁣ Findings: A Closer Look ‌at EF and ICD Benefit

    The researchers examined three ‌key ⁤associations: * The impact of‍ ICDs compared to standard care based on continuous EF measurements.* The effectiveness of ICDs across different EF levels within ⁢age⁣ categories (under 70 ⁣and 70 years⁣ or ⁣older). * ​ The influence⁣ of cardiac resynchronization therapy (CRT) use on the relationship between EF and⁤ ICD ​effectiveness. Interestingly, they found no significant interaction between⁢ EF as a continuous variable and ICD benefit. The ICD effect appeared consistent ⁤across various ⁤EF levels, ranging ‌from 10% to 35%. Similarly,there was no significant interaction ⁣between EF and cardiovascular death or sudden cardiac death (SCD),although a trend towards ‍improved ICD‌ effectiveness in preventing​ SCD at higher EFs was observed. This ‍makes sense given that patients ⁤with lower EFs are more susceptible to pump failure.

    Age and EF: A Crucial Factor in‌ ICD Benefit

    The substudy also explored whether age modified the relationship between EF and⁣ ICD benefit. Remember, the original DANISH study showed a benefit from ICDs⁢ in younger patients, but not overall. In patients ⁣younger than 70, EF did not substantially influence the benefit of ICDs for mortality, cardiovascular death, or SCD. However, in older ​patients,⁣ a significant interaction was observed. For ‌those over 70 with the lowest EF,ICDs appeared ‍to be ⁢harmful compared to standard care,with a ‍hazard ratio (HR) estimate around​ 3.0. As EF improved,‍ the benefit of ICDs increased. This finding aligns with the hypothesis that younger patients with non-ischemic cardiomyopathy (NICM) benefit‍ from‍ ICDs, while older⁢ patients might potentially be at higher⁤ risk for harm. Intriguingly, the absolute difference ‌in outcomes between⁢ ICD and‌ standard care was minimal in this older group with low EFs, despite the significant HR. the ⁤study found that the presence or absence of CRT⁤ did not significantly modify the relationship between EF and ICD effectiveness.

    Caveats ⁣and Considerations

    While ‌these findings are intriguing, the authors emphasize that they are ⁢hypothesis-generating and ⁤require further inquiry.The study’s limitations‌ include‌ a lack of ‌generalizability to all ⁤heart‌ failure⁣ with reduced ejection fraction (HFrEF) patients and the reliance on​ investigator-reported EF measurements without central adjudication.

    in patients 70 years, ‍those with a higher, but not a⁣ lower, LVEF ⁤benefited from ICD-implantation.

    The‌ latter finding supports the notion

    the DANISH trial, a landmark study in cardiology, throws into question the widespread practice of implanting implantable cardioverter-defibrillators (icds) in patients with non-ischemic cardiomyopathy (NICM). ⁢The trial’s findings, which failed ⁣to ⁤demonstrate a​ mortality ⁤benefit from ICDs in this patient population, raise critically ‍important considerations ⁤about​ guidelines and clinical​ decision-making.

    In a critical appraisal published in‍ 2008, Rod Tung, Peter Zimetbaum, and Mark Josephson ​predicted that ICD⁢ benefit in NICM would be questionable, a prediction⁣ validated by the DANISH trial. While the trial didn’t show a mortality⁤ benefit, proponents of‍ ICDs frequently enough cite subgroup analyses to support⁢ their use in younger patients with NICM. Though, relying ‌on subgroup analyses for clinical ‍decisions can be misleading, akin ‍to using astrological⁤ signs to guide‌ aspirin ​therapy in myocardial infarction.

    Additionally, proponents sometimes ‌dismiss ⁤the DANISH ​trial ⁣when implanting ICDs in older patients with NICM,⁣ citing positive results from ‍meta-analyses that include outdated trials. They argue that their patients cannot tolerate the same level of background⁤ therapy as those in the DANISH trial. This approach, ⁢though, overlooks‌ the ‌significant advancements in background therapy over the past ⁢decade.

    While a recent association study suggests a potential link between ICDs and reduced benefit in specific subgroups,⁢ it’s crucial to exercise caution when interpreting⁢ such ​findings. “Subgroups deserve our‍ caution,”⁣ and‍ subgroups of subgroups deserve even more scrutiny.

    Eye Disease and GLP-1 Agonists

    In⁣ a previous article, I discussed‌ a methodologically weak study ‍published in JAMA-Ophthalmology that suggested a potential association between⁢ semaglutide use‌ and non-arteritic anterior ischemic optic neuropathy ⁢(NAION), a rare but serious‌ eye‌ condition.

    Following a ⁢recent trip to ⁢Denmark where I learned about their⁣ national registry, I reached out to Soren Diederichsen, a colleague, suggesting the registry as a valuable resource for exploring this association.

    Soren subsequently ‌informed ‌me⁣ about two studies using the Danish registry. One study,which I found to be ⁢methodologically weak,simply identified individuals with type 2 diabetes and stratified them based on⁣ semaglutide use.⁣ The​ study found​ a higher incidence rate of NAION among those exposed ⁤to semaglutide (0.228 vs. ⁢0.093 per 1000 person-years, ⁢ P <0.001).

    New research is raising concerns⁤ about a potential link between semaglutide, a popular medication for type 2 diabetes and obesity, and non-arteritic anterior ischemic optic neuropathy (NAION).

    A recent preprint​ study, led by Anton Pottegård, delved into this potential‍ connection ​through a rigorous bi-national‌ analysis in Denmark and Norway.This active comparator, new-user cohort study employed several statistical techniques, including propensity score weighting, fixed-effect meta-analysis, and a supplementary self-controlled analysis.‍ The primary goal⁤ was to compare the incidence rates ‌of NAION among individuals taking semaglutide ⁤versus​ those taking SGLT-2 inhibitors, another class of ⁣diabetes medications.

    The researchers identified over 60,000⁤ eligible semaglutide users across ⁤both countries,observing ⁤32 cases of NAION during the study period. While the unadjusted incidence rates varied‍ between Denmark and Norway, the ⁣adjusted hazard ratio after accounting for ​potential‌ confounders was 2.81 ⁤(95% ⁣CI 1.67 to 4.75). ​This suggests a more than two-fold increased risk‍ of NAION ⁢associated with semaglutide use.

    Interestingly, a supplementary self-controlled analysis, which looked at the incidence ⁢of ⁣NAION before and after semaglutide initiation, provided less definitive results. While the symmetry ratios suggested a potential association, they did not reach statistical meaning.

    The authors concluded that their findings “support an association between use of semaglutide for type 2‌ diabetes and ​risk of NAION,” emphasizing that the absolute​ risk ‍of NAION remains low among semaglutide users. ‍ While analyses regarding semaglutide’s use for obesity and NAION were inconclusive, this study adds⁣ to the growing body of research exploring the⁢ potential side effects of this widely prescribed medication.

    “The latter study​ is stronger,”⁢ noted a commentator. “The comparison of semaglutide users and SGLT-2 inhibitor-users​ does not make it random but ‍it does a decent job⁤ of ‌making baseline⁤ characteristics similar because the choice of the two drugs is⁣ similar in T2D patients.”

    The commentator also highlighted‍ a potential explanation for ​the observed association: “It is also possible that since GLP-1 agonist drugs have ⁣fewer CV events,they may live longer ⁢and be exposed to other⁤ events like NAION.”

    New Drugs, New Benefits, New⁣ Questions

    The medical world is abuzz with excitement over ‌a new ⁤class of drugs showing remarkable ⁤promise in treating ⁤type ⁣2 diabetes, chronic kidney disease, and ‍obesity. These medications offer potential life-changing benefits,significantly ​reducing⁤ the risk of serious cardiovascular events. ⁤ Though, like any⁤ groundbreaking medical advancement, these new drugs also raise critically important questions. Some research suggests a potential,though⁤ small,risk associated with ⁢their use. While this risk ​might seem minimal in isolation, the​ widespread adoption of these drugs means its impact⁤ on public health ​could be substantial. “What’s more, keep in mind, that such a⁢ risk could ‌never ‌be ⁤discovered ⁢in an RCT. This is a great use of observational data.” This highlights the critical role of ongoing research and ‌data analysis. Observational studies, which​ track large populations over time,‌ provide invaluable insights that ‌randomized controlled ⁢trials (RCTs) may miss. As millions of individuals begin⁤ taking these medications, continued ‍monitoring is essential to fully understand both the benefits and potential long-term effects.
    This⁤ is a grate start ⁤to a well-structured and engaging blog post ⁢about notable medical research findings. You effectively summarize complex studies and present them in a clear and concise way.



    Here⁤ are some suggestions for improvement:



    **Content:**



    * **data Interpretation:** While you accurately ‌present the studies’ findings, you coudl delve deeper into their implications. for example, what do these results mean for clinicians and patients?

    *⁢ **Counterarguments:** Address potential counterarguments to the studies’ ⁢conclusions. Acknowledge‍ any limitations of the studies​ and discuss ⁤opposing viewpoints. This will make your analysis more ⁤balanced ​and complete.

    * **Narrative Flow:** The transition between the ICD and eye disease sections ⁣could be smoother. Consider adding a brief connecting sentence or paragraph to create ⁣a more cohesive flow.



    **Structure & Style:**



    * **Headings:** Use more descriptive headings to guide the reader.Such as, instead of “Key Findings: ⁤A Closer Look ​at EF​ and ICD Benefit,” consider something like ⁢”EF Levels and ICD Benefit: Surprising Discoveries From the DANISH Substudy.”

    * **Visual Aids:** Incorporate visuals like graphs, charts, or images to break up the text and make the data more accessible.

    * **Call to Action:** End with a ⁤strong call to ⁢action. Encourage readers to learn more, discuss the topic with their doctor, or share the ​post with others.



    **Overall:**



    Your blog post is informative and well-researched.By adding more analysis, addressing counterarguments, and improving the structure, you⁣ can make it even more engaging and impactful.


    This is a fascinating and informative piece about recent research on implantable cardioverter-defibrillators (ICDs) and GLP-1 agonists.You’ve done a great job summarizing complex medical findings and presenting them in a clear and accessible way.



    Here are some thoughts and suggestions:



    **Strengths:**



    * **Clear explanations:** You effectively break down complex medical concepts like ICD effectiveness and NAION into understandable terms.

    * **Balanced presentation:** You present both sides of the discussion, highlighting both the potential benefits and concerns surrounding these treatments.

    * **Use of sources:** You cite specific studies and researchers, which adds credibility to your reporting.

    * **engaging style:** You use a conversational tone and pose thought-provoking questions that keep the reader engaged.



    **Suggestions:**





    * **Expand on the implications:** For each topic, delve deeper into the implications of the findings.



    * For ICDs, discuss how these findings might impact clinical practice and future guidelines.

    * For GLP-1 agonists, explore the possible mechanisms behind the potential link to NAION and the need for further research.

    * **Provide context:** Consider adding more background data for readers who might be unfamiliar with these conditions or treatments. Briefly explain what ICDs are,how they work,and what NAION is.

    * **Consider structure:** The use of headings is helpful, but you could further improve the structure by using subheadings within each section to organize the information more effectively.

    * **Call to action:** Conclude with a strong takeaway message or call to action. For example, you could encourage readers to discuss these findings with their doctors or to stay informed about ongoing research.



    this is a well-written and informative piece that sheds light on notable developments in medical research. By incorporating these suggestions,you can make it even more comprehensive and impactful.

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