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»The British government finally chose to use force against the Qing Dynasty
2024-09-13 06:12:09
I am the author of a series of books called “Wandering Opinions on the Past Dynasty”. In Literature City, I will share my views in the books for a long time. I hope you can learn more about modern history from it. At the same time, you can also feel a different perspective than before.
***All my articles are original and are welcome to be forwarded. Please indicate the source and author when forwarding.
Sending troops to China was approved by the British Parliament after a fierce debate. The war faction won with a very, very slim advantage. The main objections of the anti-war faction were: first, because the Qing government had announced a ban on smoking, so The opium trade is immoral, and Britain should not support immoral trade; second, British businessmen should respect the laws of the Qing Dynasty as much as they respect British laws, and thus give up the opium trade. These two views of the opposition indeed stand on the highest moral ground, but their views do not fully represent the mainstream public opinion in reality. After all, the British Parliament is not a moral court. The members who dominate the Parliament are more concerned about the interests of the United Kingdom and the interests of British businessmen. Don’t forget, the votes behind them come from the British people, which naturally includes those businessmen.
What I want to emphasize is that Britain is a democratic society and the existence of different voices is normal. The war against the Qing Empire was not the decisive decision of a wise leader, but the result of quarrels, compromises and trade-offs among various parties and interest groups in the parliament. In other words, the British Empire’s decision to go to war against the Qing Dynasty represented the will of the majority of the British people at that time. Of course, behind the fierce quarrels in the British Parliament, I must admit that many British businessmen engaged in the opium trade spent money, hired lobbyists for intensive lobbying, and even fabricated many lies for their own selfish interests. This is also true. . They ultimately influenced parliamentary decisions.
In mainstream Chinese-speaking circles, the fierce quarrels in the British Parliament that year are rarely mentioned. At least I have always believed that the British (of course, this refers to the British authorities) became angry when they heard that Lin Zexu was selling cigarettes in Humen. Then they rolled up their sleeves, whistled, and sent the wolf-like British troops there. Guangzhou.
In addition, from the fierce quarrels in the British Parliament, we can see that there are two diametrically opposed opinions in the British Parliament in the face of the obvious illegal behavior of British businessmen in the Far East. This indirectly proves that the British government was indeed not directly involved in opium smuggling activities against the Qing Dynasty. But this does not mean that the British government does not bear any responsibility for the large-scale illegal activities of British businessmen in the Far East. What we future generations see is that “greed” finally defeated morality.
It is true that we should not think that the war launched by Britain is just because of the opposition in the British Parliament, because from the perspective of modern international law, the Qing Dynasty is a sovereign country. The Qing government explicitly banned the opium trade, and the British and British businessmen should abide by local laws. According to the law, smuggling is a crime, and drug smuggling is an even more serious crime. It is impossible for the British government not to know this common sense, so why did the British government choose the extreme method of war even though it knew it was legally untenable?
The reasons for this are actually quite complicated:
First of all, in the 19th century, Britain was a capitalist country where “mercantilism” was prevalent, and commercial interests were their most important national interests and supreme pursuit. In order to realize this supreme pursuit, building an open and fair international trade system led by the British Empire around the world has become an important prerequisite for the British to realize their ideals.
At that time, Britain, as the first country to enter modern civilized society, had not completely gotten rid of the bad habits of the old civilization in the Middle Ages. The power politics of “winner takes all” was still prevalent. As an emerging capitalist country, this new social system also existed A lot of naivety and bias. As the rapidly expanding economic and military power of the United Kingdom, their people and parliamentarians believe that in the face of Britain’s powerful Royal Navy, any country has only two choices, either trade as an equal, or be conquered and plundered by the British Empire.
Second, from the perspective of the British who pursued mercantilism before 1840, the Qing Dynasty, as a country with a large population and resources, had huge market potential and was simply a coveted treasure land. For the emperor and people of the Qing Dynasty, out of consideration for their own interests, accepting “equal trade” seemed to be the most reasonable choice. Therefore, the British sent official delegations to the Qing Dynasty several times in an attempt to negotiate to integrate the Qing Dynasty into the international trade system conceived by the British. For those of us living in the 21st century, there is generally nothing wrong with what the British thought at that time, because we have already seen the results of common development in the process of economic globalization. However, in the Qing Dynasty in the 19th century, the British’s “heretical theories” were simply nonsense. The British peace efforts made no progress. Now that “equal trade” doesn’t work, the British seem to have no choice but to take another path. At this time, the brutal and violent anti-smoking campaign in Guangzhou by the imperial envoy Lin sent by the Emperor of the Qing Dynasty seemed to provide a gratifying excuse for the latter option.
Third, Britain and the Qing Dynasty in the 19th century had completely different national systems. In Britain, a constitutional monarchy was implemented. In reality, the king was no longer the owner of the country. It was not the king, and certainly not the prime minister, who decided where Britain should go. or an official. In the UK, Parliament controls the government’s budget and financial expenditures, which means that the British Parliament controls every pound of the government. Therefore, whether it is the king or the prime minister, if he wants to launch a war, he must get the support of the parliament, unless the king or prime minister Use your own money to wage war against foreign countries.
The British Parliament is divided into two houses, the upper house and the lower house. Members of the upper house are held by traditional nobles, who have almost no actual power. The House of Commons is elected by popular vote. Legally, the king has the final veto power, but since the 18th century, the British king has never used this power again, not because he doesn’t want to but because he can’t. The power of members of the House of Commons comes from the authorization of each electorate. Of course, this authorization is realized through votes. In other words, these MPs were not accountable to the king or the country; they had to be accountable to their constituents. From this we know that the British decision to use force against the Qing Dynasty was not the decision of one person, but a symbol of British public opinion at the time. In other words, most British people at that time advocated taking military action against the Qing Dynasty. The Qing emperors, Qing ministers and Qing people were completely unable to understand this point. To this day, many people living in East Asia still cannot understand it.
Did businessmen influence the British Parliament’s decision to use force against the Qing Dynasty? Of course! However, everyone must be clear that although businessmen will try their best to influence the decision of Parliament, it is not all those businessmen who ultimately decide whether to go to war. Without the support of public opinion, it is almost impossible for the British Parliament to pass that resolution. In Britain after the Industrial Revolution, urban residents, industrial workers, and farmers all benefited from industrialization. External expansion and trade expansion were the choices of most British people.
Here, I want to tell you that the popular saying in the Chinese-speaking world is that the Opium War was planned by the then British Commercial Director in the Qing Dynasty, and was instigated by the big businessman Diandi in Hong Kong. As a result, the British government launched a brazen invasion of the Qing Dynasty. war. These statements did not conform to the basic procedures of British foreign wars at that time. More importantly, these statements deliberately distorted the public opinion of Britain at that time. The reason for these statements is that in a totalitarian society, their deliberations and war decisions are like that. Specifically, they believed that what the imperial envoy Lin Zexu could do, the trade director Yilu could also do; Qing officials accepted bribes from businessmen, and British officials must do the same; On the imagination of totalitarian theory in England. If dear readers have thought this way before, then I must tell you that using this totalitarian theory to view modern democratic systems or analyze modern civilized societies will often lead to huge deviations.
Fourth, in a democratic system like the United Kingdom, there is almost no matter where “all people are united”, and the decision on the Opium War is no exception. As usual, there will be fierce quarrels in Congress. From historical data, you can see to the scene at that time. Opponents of the war pointed out that opium smuggling was immoral, illegal and an embarrassment to Britain. These views should make the Qing people very comfortable, but what makes the Qing people regretful is that these anti-war opinions are not from the perspective of the Qing Dynasty. They are from the perspective of British interests, advocating insisting on using peaceful means to slowly influence the Qing Dynasty. A system that has already become rigid. The views of the main fighting party are also very clear, that is, Britain must maintain the principle of free trade, must punish the Qing Dynasty that challenges free trade, and must protect the basic rights of foreign businessmen in the Qing Dynasty. In their view, only force can make the party that undermines equal trade understand the need to observe order. In the British Parliament, the two opinions were evenly matched, and in the end, the war side won by a narrow margin. Everyone should know that the British were not as warlike or barbaric as everyone thought. They finally chose war after considerable struggle.
Of course, Britain’s final choice of war is not as simple as I said. The battle between the ruling party and the opposition party, and the subtle role of the king in it, will all affect Britain’s final decision. However, all these decisions must go through the final decision of the people. A test, because the votes in the hands of the British people cannot be influenced by every politician.
I am here not to say whether the British decision was right or wrong. I want to tell you how the war decision was made, and when faced with the question of how to view historical events, different countries and different situations should be fully considered. systems, different cultural backgrounds and other factors. Doing so can greatly reduce a lot of confusion we face in the historical picture.
cip Posted a comment on 2024-09-13 22:34:09
So my suggestion to you is to do more factual research, such as the figures you listed on opium (of course, I am not sure whether your figures are accurate), and less subjective judgment. If you must make a judgment, then please define the premise and scope.
cip Posted a comment on 2024-09-13 22:22:52
Lu Ren Ant 1
Maybe you have just come out of the jungle, or more likely you are still in the jungle, where the rules are a little different from those in modern society. If the British do not hand over Hong Kong to China in accordance with the treaty, you will definitely be furious. Britain has now handed over Hong Kong to China, and you say they can’t defeat you. Don’t you think something is wrong somewhere?
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You are right. According to the treaty, Britain could not have given it, because it was ceded directly to Britain. Then why did Hong Kong, which was given to China, fight a war with Argentina? Is Hong Kong not as valuable as that broken island in Argentina?
It is true that we are not living in a jungle society now, but the underlying logic is actually strength. This has not changed. Of course, you can put on countless beautiful coats.
cip Posted a comment on 2024-09-13 22:13:45
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How dare I, a scholar, clear the British’s names? What’s more, I didn’t spare the British people, and my criticism was not polite at all. On the other hand, you seem to be very worried about it. I just introduced the British procedure and you became furious, right?
Young people, please control your emotions.
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I’m not furious, nor am I saying you can’t talk about the UK’s decision-making process
I just agree with a few of your points.
1. It is unfair to tell a country that has launched a war that they are not so warlike, and in turn criticize Lin Zexu for being rough in dealing with illegal drug dealers. .
2. You think that Chinese people don’t know the cause of the Opium War. I quoted the result from Baidu just to tell you that Chinese people all know the root cause and trigger of the Opium War, and the Chinese government did not mislead the Chinese people. But you immediately said that mainlanders only know the answer given by the government, but the answer given by the government is the same as yours!
3. This leads to a question: do Chinese people include Chinese people in mainland China? If they do, then Baidu is the mainstream search engine for Chinese people, and the government has already told Chinese people the root cause of the Opium War. If you don’t believe it, you can look at mainland history books, which are basically consistent with what Baidu searches. If it does not include mainland Chinese, then it is not the Chinese government’s responsibility that Chinese people do not know the cause of the Opium War. Then whose responsibility is it, the Republic of China, the former British colonists in Hong Kong, or the governments of other Chinese countries?
4. In fact, there is no problem if you are dissatisfied with the mainland government, but before blaming others, you should first clarify the facts, which means not to let your position come first.
cip Posted a comment on 2024-09-13 21:49:16
Lu Renyan 12024-09-13 21:03:02 replied to a private message and replied to ‘cip”s comment: Quoting Baidu again (why should I use Baidu to refute you: Baidu is the mainstream search engine in China, and the main source of Baidu Chinese information is China, the Chinese are the main group in the Chinese-speaking world,
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I have to call you “Uncle”. Baidu is the mainstream in your world. Baidu can only say what your government stipulates. Therefore, I will not argue with you. Because you know what your government tells you. Since you have come to the Literature City, please open your eyes and see another world.
It’s getting late, you’d better take a shower and go to bed!
Baidu will tell you how to get a good night’s sleep.
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What I want to say is that even Baidu can clearly show that the UK launched the war after discussions in Congress, which shows that the Chinese government did not mislead the Chinese people on this issue. Unless you insist on covering your ears and saying, “I don’t want to listen, I don’t want to listen, no no, you misled me”, then I can’t do anything about it.
Lu Ren Ant 1 Posted a comment on 2024-09-13 21:23:14
Reply to ‘cip”s comment: Do you want to clear Britain’s guilt by this? “Alas, we don’t want to invade China either. We made this difficult decision after a long period of consideration and debate.” Brother, you really care about the British people 200 years ago…
Lin Zexu may have made the decision to punish the British merchants after a fierce argument with his staff. In fact, he did not mind hurting Britain’s reputation, but he had no choice but to make such a decision. You should know that Lin Zexu was not as rude as you think. He finally decided to punish Elliot after an inner struggle.
The ultimate criterion for whether a country is warlike or not is whether it actually starts a war, not how it makes decisions.
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How dare I, a scholar, clear the British’s names? What’s more, I didn’t spare the British people, and my criticism was not polite at all. On the other hand, you seem to be very worried about it. I just introduced the British procedure and you became furious, right?
Young people, please control your emotions.
I can’t remember how many times I have told you that the British government should shoulder their responsibilities. What I want to say is that the Qing Dynasty and the Qing people, as well as the later Chinese people, should sum up themselves and look at the bad flaws in themselves. It is true that progress cannot be forced, but I do hope that China can progress, so I wrote the book “Walking About the Past Dynasty” and continued to write these articles. But I never expect to convince every Chinese.
You can follow my articles and make sharp criticism every time. I really appreciate you and I really like you. What’s more valuable is the civilization you show. If I have offended you with my words, please forgive me.
Lu Ren Ant 1 Posted a comment on 2024-09-13 21:09:49
Reply to ‘cip”s comment: Brother, it’s good that you can study these details. But don’t put your position first. In fact, I don’t completely oppose your statement that the widespread opium epidemic may be largely caused by the Chinese planting it themselves. I oppose your attitude of replacing facts with your own imagination in certain aspects, pointing fingers wherever you hit, and being strict with yourself and lenient with others.
Picking on Lin Zexu is like blaming the National Army for not letting the Japanese into the city to search for missing soldiers during the July 7 Incident.
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I think I have made my position clear. As for why you didn’t understand, I guess it’s because I used traditional Chinese characters. As for your teachings to me, I fully accept them. From now on, I will only make unreasonable opinions and not make assumptions. And be strict with yourself and more lenient with others. Do you think it’s okay?
Finally, I invite you to read my article again and mark my criticism of the British, British businessmen and the British government. Then also criticize yourself humbly. If you really can’t find my criticisms, please tell me and I will promise to translate them into simplified Chinese and present them to you. Do you think it’s okay?
Lu Ren Ant 1 Posted a comment on 2024-09-13 21:03:02
Reply to ‘cip”s comment: I’ll quote Baidu again (Why do I use Baidu to refute you: Baidu is the mainstream search engine in China, and the source of Baidu’s Chinese information is mainly from China, and Chinese people are the main group in the Chinese world,
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I have to call you “Uncle”. Baidu is the mainstream in your world. Baidu can only say what your government stipulates. Therefore, I will not argue with you. Because you know what your government tells you. Since you have come to the Literature City, please open your eyes and see another world.
It’s getting late, you’d better take a shower and go to bed!
Baidu will tell you how to get a good night’s sleep.
Lu Ren Ant 1 Posted a comment on 2024-09-13 20:58:49
Reply to ‘朝阳门”s comment: Why didn’t the British choose to fight for Hong Kong? Because they couldn’t win, it’s that simple. You know, a few months ago, Mrs. Sa fought a war with Argentina in the Falkland Islands thousands of miles away. It’s not that the British have learned well, but that Argentina can fight, but China can’t.
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Maybe you have just come out of the jungle, or more likely you are still in the jungle, where the rules are a little different from those in modern society. If the British do not hand over Hong Kong to China in accordance with the treaty, you will definitely be furious. Britain has now handed over Hong Kong to China, and you say they can’t defeat you. Don’t you think something is wrong somewhere?
Lu Ren Ant 1 Posted a comment on 2024-09-13 20:55:20
Reply to ‘武胜”s comment: Nazi Germany and Japanese militarism also had a certain popular support, but this cannot be used as any legitimate excuse for their war of aggression. Public opinion can be shaped, and democracy is never perfect. It seems that no matter how much inner struggle a person has made, if he kills someone and commits a crime, he is a criminal.
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I believe you have taken the moral high ground. I don’t object to your characterization. I just want to say two truths, which may make everyone feel uncomfortable.
Lu Ren Ant 1 Posted a comment on 2024-09-13 20:53:09
Reply to ‘Arsenal fans’ comment: Chinese historians really need to study history like the OP.
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Thank you, you are understanding. Relatively rare, but worthy of respect.
Lu Ren Ant 1 Posted a comment on 2024-09-13 20:52:07
Reply to ‘ahhhh”s comment: I know it’s a bit unethical for me to say this, but sometimes it really is “poor people must be hateful.”
As for whether it is an invasion, you can look at it however you like. I am only responsible for telling you the situation at that time. And I think it’s fair to say.
cip Posted a comment on 2024-09-13 19:17:03
Brother, it’s good that you can study these details. But don’t put your position first. I don’t completely disagree with your statement that the widespread opium epidemic may be largely caused by the Chinese planting it themselves. I am against your attitude of replacing facts with your own imagination in some aspects, pointing fingers wherever you hit, and being strict with yourself and lenient with others.
Picking on Lin Zexu is like blaming the National Army for not letting the Japanese into the city to search for missing soldiers during the July 7 Incident.
cip Posted a comment on 2024-09-13 19:01:48
“Here, I want to tell you that the popular saying in the Chinese-speaking world is that the Opium War was planned by the then British Commercial Director in the Qing Dynasty, and was instigated by the big businessman Diandi in Hong Kong. So the British government launched a brazen attack on the Qing Dynasty. war of aggression.”
Brother, this is what you think, why do you always think that others think the same? Let me quote Baidu again (Why do I use Baidu to refute you: Baidu is the mainstream search engine in China, and the source of Baidu’s Chinese information is mainly from China, and Chinese people are the main group in the Chinese world. Therefore, the information searched by Baidu, especially historical information, can represent the mainstream view in the Chinese world. Of course, whether it conforms to Western values is another matter): Look, Baidu directly said that the British Parliament had a heated debate and voted 271 to 262 to approve military action.
On January 5, 1840, Lin Zexu, according to the order of Emperor Daoguang, announced the official closure of the port and forever cut off trade with Britain. On January 8, the captain of the British ship “Worley” announced that from January 15, the Guangzhou port and the mouth of the Pearl River would be blocked. On January 16, Queen Victoria gave a speech in Parliament, saying that she was paying close attention to the interests of the British in China and the dignity of the country. The events that occurred in China have caused the interruption of trade relations between our subjects and that country. I have paid serious attention to this event that affects the interests of our subjects and the dignity of the royal family, and I will continue to pay attention to it.
In February, the British government appointed Elliot and John Elliot as chief/deputy plenipotentiaries, with Elliot as commander-in-chief of the British army.
In April, the British Parliament held a heated debate on this issue. Under the influence of Queen Victoria, it finally passed military action by 271 votes to 262. The British government never formally declared war, believing that military action was just a retaliation (reprisal) rather than a war. [12]
cip Posted a comment on 2024-09-13 18:47:29
Do you want to clear Britain’s guilt by this? “Alas, we don’t want to invade China either. We made this difficult decision after a long period of consideration and debate.” Brother, you really care about the British people 200 years ago.
Lin Zexu may have made the decision to punish the British merchants after a fierce argument with his staff. In fact, he did not mind hurting Britain’s reputation, but he had no choice but to make such a decision. You should know that Lin Zexu was not as rude as you think. He finally decided to punish Elliot after an inner struggle.
The ultimate criterion for whether a country is warlike or not is whether it actually starts a war, not how it makes decisions.
Chaoyang Gate Posted a comment on 2024-09-13 17:23:05
After all this nonsense, why did Britain launch the Opium War? After some calculations, the benefits were huge, the risks were small, it was easy to win, and the cost was low.
Why did Mrs. Thatcher fall on the steps of the Great Hall of the People? Deng Xiaoping told her that the sovereignty issue could not be negotiated and that the People’s Republic of China would take back the sovereignty of Hong Kong on July 1, 1997. This was not negotiable.
Why didn’t the British choose to fight for Hong Kong? Because they couldn’t win. It’s that simple. You know, a few months ago, Mrs. Sa had just fought a war with Argentina in the Falkland Islands thousands of miles away. It’s not that the British have learned it well, but that Argentina can fight, but China can’t.
Wusheng Posted a comment on 2024-09-13 13:55:04
Nazi Germany and Japanese militarism also had a certain popular support, but this cannot be used as any legitimate excuse for their war of aggression. Public opinion can be shaped, and democracy is never perfect. It seems that no matter how much inner struggle a person has made, if he kills someone and commits a crime, he is a criminal.
Gunners fans Posted a comment on 2024-09-13 11:12:02
Chinese historians really need to study history like the OP.
ahhhh Posted a comment on 2024-09-13 09:51:39
Right and wrong are of course subjective. From the perspective of the Qing Dynasty, this was an aggressive war.
