Fabian Elsäßer: We are now connected to him by phone, hello Mr. Hegemann!
Dimitri Hegemann: Yes, hello to Cologne!
Alsatian: Mr. Hegemann, why Detroit and why the Packard works?
Hegemann: So Detroit because I still have a score to settle there. Detroit techno delivered the right musical impulse to Berlin back then, when the wall fell. Well, I’m a bit to blame for this form of music and I brought it to Berlin, but it was the signal for departure at the right place at the right time, a topic that brought the kids from East and West Berlin together. And it wasn’t just the music, but also the rooms, the connection, the combination of the party, the ‘Togetherness’, shall I say, celebrating the new freedom in dark rooms. So Detroit provided the soundtrack, the music, and now following 25 years I thought we might pay the lid and tell them, the Detroiters, who need help right now, regarding structures. Namely the story of how Berlin developed to its advantage.
“We need a lighthouse”
Elsäßer: How was it received that a Berliner of all people is now pursuing cultural imperialism in the other direction, turning the tables, or as they say ‘pay a lid’, that’s actually meant nicely, how was that received? What were the reactions?
Hegemann: Yes, I wouldn’t call it cultural imperialism, but they were… Basically, I didn’t invade there, like some conquistador, but I’ve been closely connected to Detroit for 25 years, with the creative minds there. Not only with the musicians, but I also observed the city. So I have a relationship with the city that fascinated me a lot. At some point I also found out that I have a passion for space research, i.e. for ruins, and above all my mission is more like converting these ruins into cultural spaces and Detroit offers a lot of that. I’ve found that Detroit has the problem that there aren’t enough people there, and I thought regarding what can actually be done? I then came to the conclusion that it wasn’t the shopping mall and it wasn’t the missing casino, but we needed a lighthouse. We need a story that is similar to that of Berlin, because Detroit has an incredible music history, a lot of trumps, from Motown, from Iggy Pop, from Madonna, from Eminem and of course Detroit Techno and that is not given enough credit. When you consider that Detroit techno set the impulse for the biggest youth movement of the last century, the movement for electronic music, and then you realize that the members of the Council don’t know it at all, then you’re surprised. So the really important DJs for me come from this city, from Motor City. But there is no good club there.
Alsatian: That’s what I was regarding to ask. So there’s no scene to tie into at the moment.
Hegemann: So the scene is there, but the venues don’t exist. If you don’t have a venue, a room, a physically accessible room that fits, then it won’t work. That’s one thing, and the other thing is that Berlin has much better general conditions than Detroit. Just imagine, following the fall of the Wall we had a police hour, a 2 am, as they say in Detroit, that is 1.30 am Last Order, then Berlin would have looked different today. So I told the council, the mayor, one of the most important things is try to break the curfew. Hold Detroit 24 hours. Then that will change itself. Then people come from all over America and bring ideas with them. If you look at the history of Berlin, when that happened in 1949, when the curfew was lifted, that’s when it started. Then the big restaurants held balls once more, the film festival started and many activists came to Berlin and built what made Berlin so interesting.
Alsatian: Because there have been attempts here and there in Detroit for a number of years to use these wastelands, whether it’s inner-city agriculture, here and there studio spaces, how bad is the decay really? You read and hear a lot regarding it. Instead of 1.6 million in the 1960s, there are now 700,000. So how did you perceive that visually?
Hegemann: It is sometimes unbelievable for us Europeans when you drive into such a modern acropolis and see what is happening there. It’s, as they say, the ‘Fascination of Decay’, that’s what overwhelmed me and somehow tied me to the city. So I really like this city. It’s a kind of object love, on the one hand. They say you are right, so this urban gardening, there are 1500 gardens, a house burns down, then it stands there for a year and then the neighborhood comes and builds a garden, a kitchen garden, which they also use. There are very great things where we can learn a lot from Detroit.
“Give the youth their space”
Alsatian: But are there still enough young? There were huge migration waves. So would you have the audience at all or do you really have to bet on it being America-wide, that is, USA-wide…
Hegemann: Worldwide! So yes, I think I’ll bet on the worldwide tip ‘Move to Detroit!’, I would try that. I think if I might use a certain room now, not the Packard, I’ll get there in a moment, but let’s say the former Central Michigan Detroit main station, just the lobby, for ten years, that would be so popular within 14 days as a techno club because I believe in this energy of this music that techno will save Detroit.
Alsatian: Are we talking regarding temporary uses or regarding things that really stay?
Hegemann: Interim uses but the club would remain. I mean what still makes Berlin so popular with the youth of the world are the techno clubs. This is the night before everything. I call this the ‘Night Time Economy’. The ‘night time economy’ doesn’t work in Detroit and so we then thought that maybe we would go to a certain zone that we would basically locate at the Packard Plant and where we build different modules. That means a hostel, so 100 beds for Detroit. I think there is only one hostel with six to seven beds left. And then I thought regarding an exhibition space, but more so in industrial design. I had always advised the mayors to do two things: give young people their space, let them buzz around. Say: ‘Okay, that works, that doesn’t work’. The second is simple, allows temporary use. So properties that belong to the city, give them to the creative people. Really offer it instead of waiting for the big investor to come along and pay the somewhat expensive ground tax.
Alsatian: Urban planning visions from Berlin for Detroit: Dimitri Hegemann has big plans for the Packard Motor Plant, a car factory that has been idle for decades. Mr. Hegemann, thank you very much for the interview.
Hegemann: Okidoki, see you soon!