Initiated by Henri Jules Julien, le projet Shaeirat Poets gave the voices of poetesses from Arab countries to be heard at the 76th Avignon Festival and allowed visitors to discover the richness of their writing. Meeting with two of them, Carol Sansour and Asmaa Azaizeh.
If Shaeirat #2 gives voice to two poetesses, respectively Syrian (Rasha Omran) and Moroccan (Soukaina Habiballah), her first opus brought together two Palestinian writers. The first one, Carol Sansour, was born in 1972 in Jerusalem. After studying in North Carolina, a stay in her country and a decade in the United Arab Emirates, she now lives in Greece. The one who defines herself as a social agitator and provocateur co-hosts the site specializing in literature The Sultan’s Seal. His collection of poems In apricot season was published in French by Héros Limite in 2022 (enriched with another cycle of poems). In this book, the author alternates between apparently very prosaic lists (enumeration of places or situations) and stories, like so many dives into her memories which combine the fine capture of the political and social context with a search as close as possible to sensations.
The second, Asmaa Zaiazeh, was born in 1985 in the Lower Galilee and now resides in Haifa. Poet, artist and essayist, she worked for several years as a journalist in print, television and radio for Palestinian and Arab media. Appointed director of the Mahmoud Darwish Museum in Ramallah in 2012, she has received awards for her poetry collections. Don’t believe me if I tell you regarding the war – which is his last published collection (2019) – has to date been translated into many languages. Her poetry, very concrete, challenges by its way of linking metaphors and realistic images – without ever obliterating the environment in which she lives and the Palestinian situation.
How did you meet?
Carol Sansour : We know each other in the sense that Asmaa is Palestinian, like me, and where we both write poetry, but we had, until now, never had the opportunity to meet. I left Palestine fifteen years ago and when I go back there, I don’t have access to Haifa where she lives. In fact, with the three other authors who make up Shaeirat (Soukaina Habiballah, Rasha Omran, Asmaa Azaizeh), we all met during this project, for geopolitical reasons.
How did you meet Henri Jules Julien?
CS: I met him regarding three years ago, in Cairo, when I published my first collection of poetry online on a blog. Jules discovered it when he was in Egypt, he liked the text and he gave me the gift of translating it, without my knowing it. When he finished this translation, we started working together to refine the texts and publish my first book in Arabic, French and English.
Asmaa Azizeh : When Jules contacted me a few years ago, his objective was to initiate a translation. I don’t know how we came to talk regarding this performance, but we produced Don’t believe me if I tell you regarding the war in 2019. We played it in Palestine and this whole project has grown over the past two years.
Does the fact that here, in Avignon, the majority of the public is French-speaking and in fact only understand a translation of your writings change your relationship with them?
C.S. : Shaeirat has already given me a lot. Previously, I had doubts regarding the ability of a French audience to understand my poetry, but now I am sure that it is universal. Everyone can laugh when I make fun of the nuns or when I talk regarding my sister and I playing in the garden. Feeling that I might make the public laugh, cry, feel emotion here reassured me.
Have you ever achieved this type of performance? How did you decide how you were going to perform?
CS: I read my work of course, but I do it in very traditional montages where I read excerpts from my collections. In apricot season had never been read in full and I had never experienced this theatrical gesture. The presence of my partner Christine Saez on stage also adds another dimension to the reading. It’s a person with a different culture, who gives a new voice to my text. The idea of the staging, meanwhile, comes from Jules, who saw that this text might stand on its own without accessories.
AA: Absolutely. First of all, although not quite similar to its first version, my performance was designed three years ago. When my second collection of poetry was released in 2015, I had already imagined a proposal with musicians and video. For the performance, we didn’t have a clear vision, but I wanted to work with Adam (my husband) and Haya Zaatry (the singer who accompanies me). The creation of the work was a long process. We thought, for example, aloud, I recited a poem in front of Adam, he suggested an idea for a video, and Haya improvised, until we found sounds that we liked.
Asmaa Azaizeh / Photo by Christophe Raynaud De Lage
Do you have a particular source of inspiration or a specific creative process?
CS: No. I am a very emotional person, and my inspirations depend on how I feel that day. I am far from being a disciplined writer. I try to write poetry that I wish I had read when I was younger. For example, in my collection of poetry, I mix classical language with more familiar forms, spoken Arabic, poetry that is in contact with the street, daily life. This is not necessarily the case with classical Arabic poetry which is sometimes inaccessible and comes down to clichés and rhetoric for me.
AA: It’s ironic because, since the publication of my last collection, I have no inspiration. I’ve been experiencing blank page syndrome for a while now. But, in general, anything can be a source of inspiration: mainly my own life and my personal experiences. My sources of inspiration are never an abstract notion, a tree or a landscape. For me the idea must really spring from what I experienced.
What would be the common points between your poems?
AA: Certainly, everyone writes differently, but the fact is that all poetry comes from a certain geography. I think there will always be like fine lines that connect us, and that you can find in our poems as a listener or a reader. This does not mean that one should write specifically regarding Palestine, but that the poetry lives. If Carol writes from the Diaspora, she has lived in Palestine, was born there. Even if you don’t write regarding the place, it is there.
CS: Indeed, the place is there. But if I can use a cliché, I think what brings us together the most is femininity. Shaeirat, it is women who tell their stories. Even if we are totally different, themes are repeated from one project to another. Moreover, I feel that we are not only women, but also powerful creatures and the uniqueness of each of us is what brings us together.
When did you start writing poetry? And to consider yourself a poetess?
CS: I don’t remember when I started writing poetry or when my writing was labeled as such. I remember always writing – I also published articles. All my work was published on blogs, and around 2016 my friends thought it was time to put it on the map. It is this impulse that led me to the publication of my first collection.
AA: I started writing poetry when I was eighteen or nineteen. But my relationship with poetry dates back to my childhood, even before I learned to write and read. My father used to read and recite classic poems in front of me, and I learned them by heart, without even understanding their meaning. At the age of eight or nine, I started composing poetry in an unknown, invented language, just to test the sounds. This early relationship to poetry later turned into writing, and it was through this process that I began to think of myself as a poet.
Asmaa Zaizeh you stayed in Haifa, while you Carol Sansour now live in Greece. Why these choices of place of life?
CS: I am a lucky Palestinian, I was not physically forced to leave my homeland. But I was forced into it emotionally and economically. There is the displacement that has happened with bombs and guns, because of the many restrictions. Bethlehem is an open-air prison, and economically it was not viable for me and my family, so I left. It’s a choice that wasn’t really a choice.
AA: I was born in a small village near Nazareth, then I studied in Haifa, and I stayed there. But this region is becoming more and more unlivable. Even in a city like Haifa, promoted as a city of coexistence, everyone keeps a low profile. And we saw it last May, when everything burned: as soon as the slightest spark occurs, everything ignites. I’m not happy living in Haifa and I’m sorry regarding that because Haifa should be a beautiful city.
Carol Sansour, you describe yourself as a poet who is interested in post-national, post-sex and post-religion identities. Could you tell us a bit more regarding this?
CS: All of these identities are bullshit, clichés, gibberish just designed for consumerism. Therefore, I really don’t like being reduced to my national, religious or gender identity. When people ask me if I am an Arab artist, a feminist, a Christian, they immediately conceive a set of stereotypes. I am all that, but I want to be freer than these constraining assignments. I have a very strong point of view on our existence as humans, and it is a driving force for my poetry.
Interview by Hanna Bernard – www.sceneweb.fr
Shaeirat #1 Poetry
In apricot season
Poem Carole Sansour
Dramaturgy Henri Jules Julien
With Carole Sansour, Christelle Saez
Production Hurry Blessings
Co-production Theater Cinema of Choisy-le-Roi Approved stage for linguistic diversity
Residence Jean Vilar Association – Jean Vilar House
In partnership with France Media WorldDon’t believe me if I tell you regarding the war
Poem Asmaa Azaizeh
With Asmaa Azaizeh, Haya Zaatry
Music, vocals Haya Zaatry
Video Adam Zuabi
French translation for the surtitles Henri jules Julien, Mireille MikhaïlProduction Asmaa Azaizeh, Haya Zaatry, Adam Zuabi
Associate production Haraka Baraka
Co-production Theater Cinema of Choisy-le-Roi Approved stage for
linguistic diversity
In partnership with France Media WorldDuration: 2h30 (including intermission)
Festival d’Avignon 2022
Saint-Joseph High School Gymnasium
from July 16 to 19On tour :
In apricot season
André Malraux Cultural Center, Vandoeuvre-lès-Nancy
from March 17 to 19, 2023The Halle aux Grains, Blois
March 21 and 22,Le Grand R, La Roche-sur-Yon
March 23Athénor nomadic scene, Saint-Nazaire
March 24 and 25Jean Vilar Theater in Vitry-sur-Seine
March 29The Saffron, Amiens
April 5The National Stage of Orleans
the 12th fromABC Culture Center, La Chaux-de-Fonds
May 14 and 15Don’t believe me if I tell you regarding the war
André Malraux Cultural Center, Vandoeuvre-lès-Nancy
March 17 and 18, 2023Le Grand R, La Roche-sur-Yon
March 23Athénor nomadic scene, Saint-Nazaire
March 25 and 26Cinema Theater of Choisy-le-Roi
March 30House of Culture of Amiens
April 3The National Stage of Orleans
the 11th fromTPR – Romand Popular Theater, La Chaux-de-Fonds
the 11th fromLe Lieu Unique, Nantes
the 24th from
