2023-07-07 02:40:06
image copyrightSTRINGER/EPA-EFE/REX/Shutterstock
Caption,
Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko, Putin’s ally in the war once morest Ukraine, is soon to celebrate 29 years in power.
Article informationAuthor, Steve RosenbergRole, Editor de BBC News Russia
2 hours
It was Alexander Lukashenko who brokered the deal to end the Wagner mutiny two weeks ago. That’s what they told us.
So, if there is someone who can shed light on this murky story, it is surely the leader of Belarus. Or so we hope.
We are part of a small group of journalists invited to the Minsk Palace of Independence to “talk” with Lukashenko.
Just a few weeks ago there was frenzied speculation regarding his health. But it is clear that the Belarusian leader has the stamina. The “conversation” lasts almost four hours.
However, instead of shedding light, it further confuses the facts around the recent Russian uprising.
According to the agreement between the Wagner Group and the Kremlin, Wagner’s boss, Yevgeny Prigozhin, was to move to Belarus, along with some of his fighters.
That didn’t happen. At least not yet.
“Until this morning,” says Lukashenko, “Wagner’s fighters, very serious, were still in the camps to which they retreated following (the battle of) Bakhmut.”
“As for Yevgeny Prigozhin, he is in St. Petersburg. Or maybe this morning he flew to Moscow. Or maybe he is somewhere else. But he is not in Belarus.”
I ask Alexander Lukashenko if this means that the agreement has been broken.
He says no. It seems that there were conversations behind the scenes that we will not know anything regarding.
When it comes to talking regarding the mutiny, Moscow and Minsk have not given the same information.
Last weekend, Russian state television declared that President Vladimir Putin had emerged from these dramatic events a hero.
“I think nobody came out of that situation a hero,” Lukashenko tells me.
“Neither Prigozhin, nor Putin, nor Lukashenko. There were no heroes. And what is the lesson? If we create armed groups like this, we have to watch them and pay close attention.”
image copyrightArchyde.com
Caption,
On Saturday, June 24, a caravan of the Wagner mercenary group headed towards Moscow.
Russian nuclear weapons
The “talk” turns to nuclear weapons. In particular, the nuclear warheads that Russia has said it is moving to Belarus.
“God save me from ever having to make the decision to use them,” Lukashenko had recently said, adding: “But I will not hesitate to use them.”
I remind you of those comments.
“Joe Biden might say the same, and Prime Minister Sunak,” replies Lukashenko. “And my friend Xi Jinping and my older brother, President Putin.”
“But we’re not talking regarding their weapons,” I point out. “They are Russian. It is not their decision.”
“In Ukraine, a whole army is fighting with foreign weapons, isn’t it?” replies the Belarusian leader. “NATO weapons. Because they have run out of theirs. So why can’t I fight with someone else’s weapons?”
But we are talking regarding nuclear weapons, not guns, I reply.
“Nuclear, yes. They are also weapons. Tactical nukes.”
image copyrightGetty Images
Caption,
After being a thorn in his side, since the 2020 election Lukashenko has become an increasingly close ally of Putin.
political prisoners
As you can probably tell from his nuclear comments, Alexander Lukashenko is a controversial figure.
The United States, the European Union and the United Kingdom do not recognize him as the legitimate president of Belarus. In 2020, Belarusians took to the streets to accuse him of stealing the country’s presidential election. The protests were brutally suppressed.
I mention the case of imprisoned opposition activist Maria Kolesnikova.
“For months her family and lawyers have been denied access to her in jail. Why?” I ask.
“I don’t know anything regarding this,” he says.
“The last time I interviewed you, in the fall of 2021, there were 873 political prisoners in Belarus,” I remind Lukashenko. “Now there are 1,500.”
“In our Criminal Code there is no article on political crimes,” he replies.
The fact that there is no article on political crimes does not mean that there are no political prisoners, I point out.
“The prisoners cannot be political prisoners if there is no article,” he insists. “How can they be?”
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