These are intense days of work for Antonio Tajani, both on the domestic and foreign policy fronts.
He has just finished answering question time at the Senate. We meet him in his office as deputy prime minister at Palazzo Chigi. There are many issues on the table. We cannot help but start with the European ones.
Minister Tajani, FdI maintains that at the moment there are no conditions to vote for von der Leyen. The opposition of the League is well known. On the other hand, you and Forza Italia are in favor. Is there a risk that the parties that support the government will present themselves divided in the European Parliament?
“The unity or not of the center-right parties in Brussels is not a dogma. Last time we voted for von der Leyen, FdI and Lega did not. Yet we are allies and we are in government together. The center-right coalition is not based on the European vote where we belong to different political families.”
However, she hoped for a dialogue between von der Leyen and the Conservatives…
“Of course, dialogue is always desirable. But let’s wait, there are still almost two weeks to go.”
So are you still confident that Meloni and FdI can support von der Leyen?
“Meloni will have to speak as Prime Minister to identify the portfolio to assign to Italy and the government will have to indicate the commissioner. Then I hope that in the end a way will be found for Meloni to vote for von der Leyen. However, let’s be clear, it is FdI that will have to vote for her. But there is another important aspect”.
Which?
“There is no agreement with the Greens.”
But there’s the one with the Socialists…
“So: we must understand that the European institutions are not the same as the Italian ones. They are different, with governments, with political representatives elected at different times. There is a majority in the Council of heads of state and government and then there is another in Parliament. To choose von der Leyen, an agreement was made between heads of state and government. Now we need to find another majority in Parliament to confirm Ursula and to elect Roberta Metsola. If we look at the EU as if it were Montecitorio, we are wrong. Then consider that no one allies with the far right”.
Is Le Pen also far right? German Merz (CDU) praised her distancing from AfD.
«I said this too, it’s a positive fact».
But does Forza Italia’s no to Le Pen stand?
“Yes, it stays. We are with the Gaullists. This, let’s be clear, concerns the EPP. That said, whoever wins, as a minister I will talk to those who represent France. But I repeat: if you don’t understand how the European system works, you make completely wrong political judgments. Macron did not win the elections in France, but he sits in the Council as President of the Republic.
In Germany the socialists didn’t win, but there’s Scholz. Sanchez also got fewer votes in Spain, but he decides in Europe. The majority in the Council is different from the one in Parliament. Two majorities need to be combined. Von der Leyen is the EPP, and the EPP won the elections. I hope she has a five-year mandate. Then there’s Metsola. Finally Costa who will have to be the president of the European Council for two and a half years, then I hope there will be a change with a representative of the EPP”
So the Italian centre-right model cannot be exported to Europe?
“European parties count, Italian ones don’t. Even if we put together all the elected officials in Italy, they are still a tenth of the Parliament. We don’t decide anything alone.”
There are those, like the League, who accuse the EPP of working on a deal with the Socialists. What do you respond?
“There is no collusion, what is a collusion? The collusion is at the national level when you go once morest the will of the people. These are people who do not know how the European mechanisms work. I realize that it is difficult to explain it to them.”
If Le Pen wins in France on Sunday, what will be the consequences in Europe?
“The only consequence I see might be the indication of the French commissioner.”
Regarding the commission, what is Italy aiming for?
«A weighty portfolio and a vice-presidency».
Minister Raffaele Fitto’s name is being mentioned as European Commissioner, are you in favor of it?
“If I’m asked for advice, I say Fitto. He would do very well, because he knows all the mechanisms. If you don’t know them, you spend five years as an intern.”
President Mattarella warned of the risk of majority absolutism. Salvini replied that the danger is the dictatorship of minorities. Who is right?
“I am of the opinion that there is no need to argue with the Head of State. I do not comment on his words.”
Are the rumors regarding Marina Berlusconi wanting a Forza Italia that is more open regarding rights true?
“Marina Berlusconi has never asked for anything. I emphasize: she has never asked for anything on the political line. She is an entrepreneur that I respect a lot, I consider her a friend. Silvio Berlusconi on ethical issues, from abortion to euthanasia to common-law couples, has always been to ensure freedom of conscience. Starting from a principle: the dignity of the person. In a liberal party that wants to reach 20% there will be those who are once morest abortion and those who are in favor, those who deal more with LGBTQ+ issues and those who deal less. We in Forza Italia have never given peremptory orders on these issues”.
How will you get to 20%?
“I want to occupy the space between Meloni and Schlein. I want to recover worlds that are waiting for a point of reference that they didn’t vote for or that perhaps previously voted for the left. The permanent center of gravity, quoting Battiato. Schlein has brought the PD very far to the left. There are those who felt displaced, like Caterina Chinnici who came with us. We are also working on a network of civic mayors that can join Forza Italia. If everyone thought we were finished and now we are above 10% it means that there is space”.
On Monday there is the National Council of Forza Italia. Are you preparing an initiative on Autonomy?
«We will launch the Observatory on Autonomies to verify that differentiated autonomy is applied with criteria of equity and that the interests of all Italian citizens are protected, from Venetians to Lombards, Calabrians and Campanians».
Do you see a risk of anti-Semitism in Italy?
«You may even be in favor of a Palestinian state but that doesn’t mean attacking the Jews or not allowing Jewish journalists to speak at the university: there is a risk».
The left-wing motions on the recognition of the State of Palestine were rejected in the Chamber…
“I made an amendment proposal addressed to the Democratic Party: we recognize the Palestinian State on the condition that the Palestinians recognize the State of Israel. They did not accept it.”
Orban has proposed a truce to Zelensky. Do you see it as possible?
«It should be the goal, but we cannot think that the solution is the surrender of Ukraine».
Do you see a solution to the conflict coming soon?
“I’d like to see her close by.”
There is a lot of talk regarding Joe Biden withdrawing from the US presidential race. What do you think?
“We must not meddle in the affairs of friendly states. We are friends of the United States, which is our main ally at the international level. Transatlantic relations are our North Star, we are two sides of the same coin. And the coin is called the West. If I tied my relationship with the US to one or the other, this principle would be undermined.”
#Ursula #bis #hope #Meloni #vote #backroom #deals #Tempo
2024-07-07 16:59:12
