“In the recent history of civilization, there have been two great political projects that have been successful. They are the United States of America, created by the founding fathers, and the European Union, also created by the founding fathers as a response to two terrible wars that Europe experienced,” said Aleksander Kwaśniewski in an extensive interview for RMF FM on the occasion of the 20th anniversary of Poland’s accession to the European Union. In a conversation with Tomasz Terlikowski, the former president recalls events from 20 years ago, analyzes the strengths and weaknesses of the Community, and poses challenges for current leaders.
Joy, smiles and horns. Kwaśniewski recalls Poland’s accession to the EU RMF FM
On May 1, we celebrate the 20th anniversary of Poland’s accession to the European Union. The 2004 enlargement was the largest in the history of the Community – apart from Poland, the EU was joined by: the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Slovenia, Cyprus and Malta.
Aleksander Kwaśniewski remembers May 1, 2004 very well. When he thinks back to that day, he sees smiling Poles waving the flags of both Poland and the European Union, as well as cars honking. He feels happy because, as he himself admits, it was a symbolic finale of Poland’s efforts to become a member of the European Union.
There was a sense of accomplishment and relief. Relief, because the long road has been successfully completed, and fulfillment, because it was one of the most important goals of my presidency. It was also the dream of many generations who were waiting for Poland to return to this European family – he says in an extensive conversation with RMF FM journalist Tomasz Terlikowski.
Olechowski regarding the boat and the transatlantic, i.e. we should enter the euro zone
Poland’s path to the Community was not strewn with roses. Both the West and Poland were skeptical regarding EU enlargement. The former president noted that while the ability to shape thinking in Europe was a difficult, almost impossible, task, the government at that time might influence public opinion in Poland.
The former head of the Polish state was convinced that Poland was entering structures that were a great political project. Kwaśniewski is of the same opinion now, but as he himself admits, he sees some weaknesses in the functioning of the Community.
This is partly explained by the hardships and crises we have been struggling with since the beginning of the 21st century; in this context, it recalls, for example, the terrorist attacks in the United States in 2001, the financial crisis, the migration crisis, the Covid-19 pandemic, and now Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. For these 24 years of the new century, we have treated ourselves to a lot of drama. But in all this, I believe that the European Union has the advantages that we still have and in which we need to invest, modernize and change, he says.
Tomasz Terlikowski noted that there is often a suggestion in the public debate, mainly from the right side of the political scene, that the European Union has betrayed its founding fathers, including: Robert Schuman and Alcide De Gasperi, and goes in a different direction. Aleksander Kwaśniewski argues that this is due to the fact that societies are moving in a different direction.
Politicians are an emanation of social thinking. It’s not like they impose their thinking and force millions of people to follow it. They result from people’s moods and thinking. Of course, European societies have changed, expectations are also changing and the European Union as a whole must respond to this – he says and adds that in order to respond to global challenges, Europe must be integrated. If we do not understand this, we condemn European countries to the margins of everything that will happen, he emphasizes.
The former president emphasizes that although Europe must cooperate, the discussion regarding the “United States of Europe” does not make much sense because there is no idea, understanding or social support for it. In his opinion, the solution is not a return to the Europe of Homelands, to which – it seems – the founding fathers of the EU were closer. Today we must accept that Europe needs several Community policies, he emphasizes. As an example, he gives common foreign policy towards world powers – the United States, China and Russia.
Community policies mean that we say: “listen, we are warning you that Russia may be aggressive”, or, for example, the Spanish say: “listen, in our foreign policy we must assume that migration from the countries of northern Africa will be serious” – he explains Aleksander Kwaśniewski and notes that the example of not listening to Poland’s voice that Russia is a threat shows that “this community policy was not enough.” I believe that if we worked to ensure that the policy towards, for example, Russia was a common European policy, perhaps our voice would be more audible and effective – he adds.
Therefore, the former president regrets that during the 8 years of Law and Justice’s rule, Poland did not take advantage of the opportunity to sit at the table where the direction of the Community is determined. Today, Germany, France and Poland should be in the mainstream, which at least decides regarding the agenda discussed in the European Union, he says and hopes that maybe this will change because “we have two people who are well versed in Brussels corridors. In this way he referred to Donald Tusk and Radosław Sikorski.
Aleksander Kwaśniewski / RMF FM
Aleksander Kwaśniewski argues that the most important aspect that the current EU should focus on is security in the face of the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine. He also points out that – due to the changing policy of the United States – European security should be based to a greater extent on European forces.
We must take into account that both Donald Trump and perhaps his successors will be increasingly convinced that Europe is strong enough to cope with less American aid or even without it. American interests are shifting more towards the Pacific – this should be accepted as a rather certain element in long-term policy, he notes.
Therefore – as he claims – Europe should invest more in defense. We must take the matter of European security into our own hands, i.e. think in a certain perspective, act for the benefit of rapid reaction forces, (develop) cooperation between the arms industries, because we must be an alternative to the production of ammunition. (…) In the long term, it means thinking regarding some common armies and principles. Of course, all this should not be done once morest the United States. We want America to be present here for as long as possible, but we must take into account that the processes of “closing the American umbrella” over Europe will continue, he emphasizes.
Referring to the war in Ukraine, Aleksander Kwaśniewski says that Vladimir Putin’s policy is clear to him. He recalled how in 2002 he met the president of Russia and heard from him that he had two main goals – to restore Russia’s rightful position in international politics and to rebuild a great Russia. This means, above all, the highest threat to Ukraine – says the former head of the Polish state in an interview with Tomasz Terlikowski. That is why I am convinced that Putin cannot be easily stopped today, he adds.
The former president argues that if there is any truce, it will be short-lived, and Putin will do everything to keep pulling Ukraine into the Russian sphere of influence. The same applies to Belarus, Moldova, the Caucasus and Central Asia – he predicts and adds that if Putin manages to win in Ukraine, Kazakhstan may be most at risk.
In his opinion, the Russian leader will not decide to attack either Poland or any of the other NATO member states. His generals have some knowledge showing that this cannot be done, he says.
Kwaśniewski is only afraid of people like Dmitry Medvedev, former president and prime minister of Russia, and currently vice-chairman of the Security Council of the Russian Federation, whose message is always the same: the West wants to destroy Russia. This is the kind of thought that is being filtered into the minds of Russians and there may be some understanding there that the goal of the West is to destroy Russia. And if the world were to be without Russia, it would be better for this world not to exist, he adds.
The conversation also touched upon the issue of Ukraine’s possible accession to the European Union. Aleksander Kwaśniewski is of the opinion that Ukraine should be included not only in the EU, but also in NATO.
I believe that even if it turns out that Ukraine cannot have all the territory it has from a legal point of view, it should also be in NATO. Because we cannot give Ukraine any reasonable security guarantees. No paper will replace (it) – he emphasizes.
I have no doubt that if we want to be fair to the Ukrainian victims and Ukrainian expectations, they must be in the EU, he adds.
The former president is aware that the main problem in the event of Ukraine’s accession to the EU will be agriculture. He proposes that Prime Minister Donald Tusk and other European leaders create groups of experts who will prepare a common agricultural policy. A large country is entering with potential that should not be wasted because there is too much hunger in the world, he says, emphasizing that the conditions for Ukraine’s admission to the EU need to be clearly defined.
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