2023-12-23 06:12:00
You will probably be heard at the end of January as part of the Parliamentary Commission on abuses committed in the Church. What do you hope from this Commission? Will she have the time and means to produce consistent work?
Yes, I have confidence. And, whatever its conclusions, the Church will take additional steps compared to what has been done. I am particularly thinking of supporting victims. Financial transactions paid to victims are essential, but they are not sufficient. Many victims explain to me that to rebuild themselves they need to be supported.
Is it up to the Church to organize this support?
The Church can participate in financing care and therapies carried out by professionals outside it. This is a proposal that we will make. But some victims also need to experience healing within the Church, as part of their life of faith. I have just met one of them who wishes to found a non-profit organization in this direction. We must therefore be able to think and offer such support.
After what was achieved in 2010, didn’t the Belgian Church rest a little on its laurels, thinking that everything was settled?
Within the Church, some must undoubtedly have thought that everything was settled. But I wouldn’t say that the institution has rested on its laurels. You just have to see the professionalism of the people who listen to the victims, particularly through the points of contact… Today, all the bishops are on the same line to say that we must continue the work.
The bishop of Antwerp, Mgr Bonny, had harsh words once morest Cardinal Danneels, archbishop of Mechelen-Brussels from 1979 to 2010, saying that he had “neither the right attitudes nor the good intuitions to listen to the victims ”. Mgr Danneels counted in your vocation. How do you view him today?
In the Vangheluwe affair (named following the former bishop of Bruges recognized for abuse), Cardinal Danneels failed. As he was close to Roger Vangheluwe, he thought he might be a good mediator between him and the victims, but he lacked foresight. The reactions he had at the time were not appropriate, and I understand the victims’ pain. However, since the Dutroux affair, Cardinal Danneels has supported initiatives so that abuses are recognized. Even if it was not yet sufficient (we see that the Church is engaged in a long path of progress), it would be wrong to say that he wanted to hide everything.
Johan Bonny: “Cardinal Danneels had neither the right attitudes nor the right intuitions to listen to victims of sexual abuse”
Last week, Het Laatste Nieuws revealed that 30,000 babies were put up for adoption in Belgium between 1945 and 1980 without their mother’s consent. They would have been “sold” to families. MP Yngvild Ingels (N-VA) calls for a broad investigation. Do you follow her?
Yes, and above all with regard to the pain of the victims. But also because everything is not clear in this matter. In 2015, the Flemish Parliament already investigated these cases. The Church was asking and still is. For example, we don’t really see where the figure of 30,000 children comes from. And we must consider this issue as also being a social issue. At the time, it was socially unacceptable for women to become mothers outside the family. For some it was financially untenable, and for other families it was a shame that had to be hidden. An adoption system was therefore organized and mothers would give birth in particular in religious structures. There were serious abuses, but this is an issue that concerns all of society. We must also be careful regarding the use of the term “sold children”. In most cases, a financial contribution was requested from families. Even today, the adoption process “costs” foster families.
Despite everything, in view of these files, how do Catholics still believe in the Church?
We are faithful to the gospel if we seek to establish the whole truth, and if we accept that truth. For us, beyond the facts, the truth is also the person of Jesus in whom we believe and in whom we place our hope. We are certain that he accompanies the Church in this work of truth.
But don’t these files delegitimize the Church? Do you still believe in the Church?
The Church does not announce itself: it is there to announce the Gospel. It is a community of imperfect men and women who want to bear witness to a close God, who loves each and every one. This is the Church. And it is in the name of the Gospel, for the Gospel that I believe in her.
What do you say to someone who asks to be renamed?
First of all, I respect his decision. If we continue the dialogue, then I would share with him what is in my heart, and my deep conviction that the Church is the sign of a God who loves him.
In view of the sociological evolution of the country, is there reason to relaunch a major debate on the legitimacy of the financing of religions?
I am open to discussion, while emphasizing that religions and philosophical confessions have a place and a role to play in the public space, which legitimizes funding.
A little less than 75% of religious funding goes to Catholic worship. Should this rate be readjusted according to current sociological reality?
Yes, we are open to such a discussion.
“The Parliamentary Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in the Church does not have the means to match its ambitions. An independent Commission must be established”
“Vatican Statement on Blessing Same-Sex Couples Is Not Revolutionary”
Religion is not just a private matter, you say: does this mean that public sector employees can wear religious symbols, the veil for example?
It would be harmful for society as a whole to confine religion to a private setting. However, when you exercise a public or authoritative function, you must be respectful of the people you are speaking to. In this context, wearing ostensible signs of conviction does not seem appropriate to me. However, it is up to politicians to set the rules in this area.
You have appointed a woman, Rebecca Charlier-Alsberge, as head of the vicariate of Walloon Brabant. This is unprecedented in Belgium. How do you define the place you want to give to women in the Church?
Above all, I wondered why we had not made such appointments sooner. It is obvious that we might not concentrate all the responsibilities and powers in the Church in the hands of the clerics. As we had a plethora of priests however, this is the option that was followed in the past. Appointing women to important positions is simply recognizing that all baptized people have a role to play. And that power must be exercised in complementarity, but also in respect for the vocations and ministries of each person. It is in this sense that Rebecca Charlier-Alsberge will work in duo with the priest Alain de Maere.
This Monday, the Vatican allowed priests to bless homosexual couples outside of any liturgical framework. What should we read there: a revolution or a half-measure? The text does not go as far as what the Dutch-speaking Belgian bishops wanted…
The deep meaning of this document is to remind us that no one is excluded from God’s love. Obviously, he takes care not to mix everything up, to recall that in the tradition of the Church a marriage is between a man and a woman. This is why this blessing does not bless the union, but is a gift from God to help us grow in fidelity to the Gospel. In this sense, this document from Rome is not a revolution. We, the priests, bless people every day and we do not ask them, beforehand, for a certificate of good life and morals. On the contrary, a blessing testifies to the overflowing love of God which helps us to progress.
Do the tensions in the Church caused by this document in particular worry you?
No, it is rather a sign of good health for the Church. Catholics have too often wanted to avoid conflicts, not to make waves. But it’s not good. If these tensions are experienced through listening, respect and encounter (which is not always the case on social networks), they will make us grow.
In September, the Pope will visit Belgium. Is his program coming to fruition?
The announcement was made last week, so we still need to clarify the program with the Vatican. What is certain is that the Pope will visit the universities of Louvain for their 600th anniversary. In addition to numerous meetings, there should also be a large gathering (a mass) in Brussels. We really hope that this will be a great moment of celebration for the Church in Belgium.
The King, the bishops, a rector, a minister and a group of young people… Who convinced the Pope to come to Belgium?
Finally, this weekend, what meaning will you give to Christmas in 2023?
In the midst of all the dramas we experience, the birth of Jesus in a poor manger, the fact that God made himself the smallest, reminds us of the dignity of each person. Christmas invites us to take care of the smallest, the most fragile, the poorest, whoever they may be, because they bring hope.
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