2023-11-15 13:16:00
Fernando Alonso gave everything he had at the São Paulo Grand Prix. With a daring maneuver, the Spaniard pushed past Sergio Pérez on the last lap and climbed onto the podium for the first time since the end of August – for the eighth time this season. Whether in Hungary 2021, Monaco 2023 or now in Brazil – Alonso has proven, even in his old age, that the fire of the former double world champion and Schumacher conqueror still burns deep inside him.
But would his qualities also be enough for the fight for the World Cup crown? As Hans-Joachim Stuck underlines in an exclusive interview with Eurosport, Alonso would not have to hide from world champion and dominator Max Verstappen in a duel under equal conditions. “The way Alonso drives, the way he fights, is largely flawless and also brings the team forward, I would say that he would be very, very close to Verstappen,” said Stuck, who is only too happy to see the old Spanish champion in the Red Bull would see.
While Alonso is experiencing an unexpected high in the 2023 season, Charles Leclerc is facing another shambles. As has often been the case in recent years, Ferrari is not out of the loop; from the Scuderia’s point of view, the fight for the title might hardly be further away.
“The fact that Leclerc is experiencing this disappointing period at Ferrari is of course bad luck,” Stuck feels with the Monegasque. According to the two-time Le Mans winner, Leclerc cannot give up – and a look at Stuck’s past shows how to deal with setbacks correctly.
Mr. Stuck, Charles Leclerc’s failure on the introductory lap in São Paulo is part of a long period of embarrassing performances by Ferrari in recent years. After the race, Leclerc even showed gallows humor and said that he might have to make a pilgrimage to the shrine in Lourdes. Can we now speak of a curse at Ferrari?
Hans-Joachim Stuck: From a curse? No, I do not think so. You have to imagine this: this ride on the razor’s edge doesn’t give you much leeway. If you’re a tenth of a second slower, you naturally try to go that tenth faster – but then you take off. This is a quality that Max Verstappen and few others have mastered to the point of perfection. That’s the art. Of course, if you are aware, like Leclerc, that you are fast, but you make mistakes every now and then, you put more pressure on yourself. You start to think – and that’s not helpful. Leclerc simply has to gain this ‘looseness’ and the self-confidence that what he is doing is 100 percent right. That is the principle for success. I know the situation very well from my time. If you have a teammate who suddenly drives faster than you or is simply better, then you put pressure on yourself and of course try to compensate for the difference with more effort. But you have to master this art first. When you start thinking, it’s already too late. Leclerc has to work on himself so that he can regain the self-confidence that he is one of the very best – which, in my opinion, he is.
When he moved in 2019, Leclerc was known at Ferrari as ‘Il Predestinato’ – in German: ‘the prophesied one’. Five seasons later he has five wins, his classmate Max Verstappen is light years away. Was Ferrari the wrong decision for his career?
Stuck: If Ferrari wants you, there is no answer. This needs to be emphasized. Maybe I’m too much of a traditionalist. There is probably nothing better than driving for Ferrari. The fact that Leclerc is experiencing this disappointing period at Ferrari is of course bad luck. He also probably put a lot of pressure on himself because he knew that Ferrari was the chance of a lifetime. But there are also other well-known drivers who failed at Ferrari.
Whether Bahrain 2019, Monaco 2021, France 2022 or now in Brazil – you always get the impression that Leclerc has bad luck in the important moments. How did you overcome such setbacks in your career?
Stuck: Those are two pairs of boots. If you have a mechanical error, there’s nothing you can do anyway. Then all you can do is get angry and curse. But if you make a mistake yourself, it’s a completely different process. During my time at Audi I had a few hotshots like Frank Biela in my team. Frank was younger and in many ways simply better. But it made me take a cue from him and I thought, ‘God damn it! What the guy does, I should actually be able to do.’ I tried things out during training, but quickly realized that it didn’t work. In such situations you also realize where the limits of your own talent lie. And you have to accept that too. If I know that Biela was faster once more in training, then I won’t risk anything and follow him as best as I can and try to learn something. You can learn a lot while following behind and at some point you might take the opportunity to do something even better. That has always been a very important point in my life, to orient myself towards others.
Pursue to get better. An unusual approach.
Stuck: There’s a great current example that I don’t understand at all. I might go crazy then. Sergio Pérez was driving behind Fernando Alonso in Brazil – and didn’t understand that Alonso was driving a much faster line in the curve onto the long straight. I have to say: Is he stupid? Is he blind? With all his skills… he’s not worth the money. When Alonso shows that he is driving around the outside of the corner and is therefore so fast that Pérez doesn’t even have DRS enough to get past… and he still chooses a different line. I do not understand that. One can only hope that someone else will come to the Red Bull. I think it would be great if Alonso was put in the Red Bull. And the rumors are there. He denies it completely, but there may be a reason for that.
Fernando Alonso in the Aston Martin and Sergio Pérez in the Red Bull fought a fantastic duel for third place over several laps in São Paulo
Photo credit: Image
Are you alluding to his possible teammate Max Verstappen?
Stuck: Yes, we don’t have to talk regarding Max Verstappen. (laughs) This is the man of the moment at the moment, no question regarding it. But if you look at Alonso whistling across the asphalt, I would like to see him in the Red Bull.
Then let’s expand the thought game a little: What would you expect Alonso to do in the same car as Verstappen?
Stuck: The way Alonso drives, the way he fights, is largely flawless and also brings the team forward, I would say that he would be very, very close to Verstappen. I am convinced of that. Closer than Pérez in any case, that’s no question for me. There are a handful of people who I trust to drive at Verstappen’s level – and Alonso is one hundred percent of them. I just think the guy is great. We know each other really well. He has the motivation, he enjoys it. In addition, he has the maturity to use his skills perfectly at the right moment. That’s really impressive.
There is an interesting statistic regarding Alonso. If the Spaniard had collected eleven more points in the right places in his career, he would be a five-time world champion. Will this bad luck – and his disappointing time at McLaren – deprive him of his status as one of the greatest of all time?
Stuck: Of course, if you look back carefully, you will always find something. But he just didn’t win the title – whatever the reason was. There’s no point in worrying regarding it anymore. For me, he is definitely one of the top 5 competing in Formula 1. That is completely out of the question.
Fernando Alonso came third in Brazil
Fotocredit: Getty Images
And where would you place him in the history of Formula 1?
Stuck: History is paper. Of course you can have won as many races as Niki Lauda, Ayrton Senna or Alain Prost. That’s nice, but it doesn’t count right now. When you end your career, you can say that you have joined the ranks of the greats. But if you’re still active, there’s still room for maneuver. In my opinion, such things should only be discussed following the driver has resigned.
Alonso’s age is often highlighted. You officially ended your active motorsport career at the age of 60, but you continued to take part in races regularly in the recent past. How difficult is it to maintain yourself at this level?
Stuck: The year before last I was vice European champion in GT2 with KTM together with co-driver Kris Rosenberger – we only missed the title by three points. But I haven’t raced in the last two years, which hurts me a lot. But we are already planning other things. Because for me the end has not yet been reached. This is still very important to me. When I rode for KTM, my boys were there too. The first race took place in Monza three years ago. Then Johannes called me and said: ‘Dad, we’re missing a driver here. Do you feel like?’ Of course I agreed, but explained that I would only decide following training whether I would ride or not. I had kept myself fit with the numerous races in the previous years. I then traveled to Monza, drove 15 laps and was only a tenth of a second slower than my eldest son. Of course he puked, you can imagine. Then Kris Rosenberger and I started, came third in Monza and missed the championship by just three points in six races. In old age you have to deal with this situation smartly – and I will too, hopefully when I’m back in the car as soon as possible. If you don’t feel well, stop immediately! But of course this is different for every driver. In the case of Fernando Alonso and Nico Hülkenberg, you can also see that age doesn’t stand in their way. I myself have learned that experience does not compensate – quite the opposite! Experience gives a pilot a huge advantage. You know routes, bumps, rain lines, you even react to certain noises. A young driver cannot have this experience.
In my opinion, Alonso in particular might achieve a lot at Red Bull.
Let’s go back to Pérez for a moment. Is the Red Bull chapter over for him?
Stuck: Pérez is doing a great job and is clearly number two. This situation obviously helps Red Bull in that there is calm within the team. But if Red Bull gets a driver like Alonso on board, the team can improve itself a bit. At some point the time will come when the competition will be closer once more. Then it would be an advantage to have two really hot irons in the fire. In my opinion, Alonso in particular might achieve a lot at Red Bull.
Keyword performance: Max Verstappen and Red Bull can hardly save themselves from records at the moment. The Dutchman ensured the highest win rate in a season in Brazil. 17 wins in 20 races – what superlatives can you think of?
Stuck: Not many. For me, Verstappen is currently the best in the field – by far. I often watch slow motions and there is no one who implements his own abilities more consistently than Verstappen. Of course he also has the right car. One of his big advantages is that he can adapt his car perfectly to his abilities on the track. If you put Verstappen in a Mercedes or Ferrari, it would be interesting to see if he might still beat Pérez.
An interesting thought game…
Stuck: Alonso in the Red Bull, Verstappen in the Ferrari – that would actually be exciting! But such thoughts are the essence of sport.
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