2023-10-09 06:30:10
American for Europeans and European for Americans, Anne-Sophie Corbeau works on both sides of the Atlantic. As a researcher at the Center on Global Energy Policy, at Columbia University in New York, this specialist in gas and hydrogen markets is consulted for her international, strategic and economic approach to energy, by governments and NGOs. She published the article “Geopolitics and hydrogen” for Techniques de l’Ingénieur during the summer of 2023. She looks back on her journey, her analysis, study and consulting work, during an interview that she granted us.
Can you look back on your professional career?
I am a central engineer, double French-German graduate with the University of Stuttgart. I started my career in Germany, where I discovered fuel cells and hydrogen. I did an end-of-studies internship on modeling the fuel cell reforming system. Then, my first job in a consulting firm was for Peugeot, on the same subject. However, it was a little too early for hydrogen, so I continued to follow this vector in parallel. I moved on to natural gas quite quickly: I joined a consulting firm (CERA), which, following numerous mergers and acquisitions, is now called S&P Global. Then, I broadened my horizons by joining the International Energy Agency in 2009. I left in 2014 to work for KAPSARC[1] in Saudi Arabia for three years, and create their gas analysis service. Then I joined BP in the “chief economist” group, which was then responsible for the energy statistical review (now produced by another institute), and the BP Energy Outlook. Then, two years ago, I joined CGEP, Center on Global Energy Policy, which is part of Columbia University[2]. I work on gas and hydrogen, it’s quite demanding.
Can you tell us what your activity currently involves?
At CGEP, a large part of our work is dedicated to carrying out independent and non-partisan research with the aim of providing answers to key questions in the field of energy. Some of our researchers teach – since we are at a university, that of Columbia in New York. Furthermore, we create opportunities for dialogue and exchanges between the different stakeholders, through private or public events. The important thing to remember regarding our work is the public aspect of all our research.
On what subjects are you consulted by manufacturers?
I am often consulted either on the gas market or on the hydrogen market. For example, during 2022, my interlocutors in the United States spoke to me regarding their LNG export projects and asked me why the Europeans refused to sign long-term contracts. I had to explain to them that the decarbonization objectives in Europe were for 2050. An LNG project still under construction would arrive on the market in 2027 or 2028, so the long-term contract would extend until 2047 or 2048. With regard to decarbonization objectives, it is therefore complicated to sign this type of contract for a European company. For Americans, I am European, which allows them to understand what is happening in Europe. And for Europeans, I’m a bit “American”. For example, I shed several light on the Inflation Reduction Act[3]particularly in the hydrogen markets.
In your opinion, does gas have a place or a role to play in the energy transition?
The role of gas is set to diminish in developed countries, as these countries have ambitious greenhouse emissions reduction targets. Even if some, such as the United States, are more favorable to carbon capture and storage (CCS), it will not really be enough to stabilize demand. So, I think that European, American, or even Japanese demand, for example, is set to decrease. The real question actually arises for developing countries where energy demand is still increasing. Particularly those that use a lot of coal are expected to continue to see their gas demand increase. Indeed, gas can have a role to play in pushing coal towards the exit, provided that this gas is competitive and clean. We will have to be very careful with methane emissions, and we must also be able to decarbonize this gas in its final use via the capture of CO2 and its storage. Under these conditions, I think that gas would have a role to play and might help increase demand. However, a growing demand for fossil fuels to help development is often viewed negatively by certain funding organizations or NGOs in developed countries. This division between developed and developing countries is also crucial; it will probably reappear at COP 28[4]. The challenges for these countries are to combine equity, economic development imperatives and decarbonization objectives within the framework of Net Zero Scenarios[5].
But ultimately, we should observe a reduction in overall gas demand. The more ambitious the scenarios are in climate terms, the lower the gas demand, but also, at the same time, the lower the quantity of CCS[6] necessary is important.
What can you tell us regarding your role within the annual Gastech conference?
I joined the Governing Body[7] the Gastech[8] end of 2020. The role of the Governing Body is to select the papers that will be presented during the conference. These candidates’ work is divided according to different themes, such as the evolution of gas markets, regulation, new climate technologies, CCS, or even the use of new fuels in aviation, or the maritime sector. These papers cover a wide range around natural gas, hydrogen and its derivatives. Each member of the Governing Body notes the summaries. In 2022, I became one of three co-chairs of the Governing Body, which includes preparing each Gastech conference. The role of the co-chair consists of discussing the organization of the conference in general, but also concerns the program and the diversity of papers that will be presented. We are trying to give women more of a voice.
How do you see the place of decarbonized hydrogen in relation to the energy transition, in the France 2030 objective?
I am opposed to putting hydrogen everywhere. For me, hydrogen is a vector to be used sparingly, when it is justified technologically and economically. The first two things to do in a decarbonization strategy are to reduce demand, that is to say a mix of energy efficiency and sobriety, as we have seen over the last two years. We must also electrify, while having the cleanest electricity mix possible. For some, that means more renewable energy. In France, the slightly different approach includes nuclear power, which is also a zero-carbon energy. Our neighbors across the Rhine do not have the same vision. And in third position, hydrogen is arriving in sectors considered difficult to decarbonize. This includes existing uses of hydrogen, such as ammonia manufacturing in the fertilizer sector, methanol manufacturing, use in refineries and steelmaking, but also industrial sectors that require high temperatures . For low temperature and medium temperature, the processes can optionally be electrified. Complex transport (aviation, maritime sector) will probably require forms other than pure hydrogen, such as hydrogenated molecules. Finally, hydrogen can be used for electricity generation, for seasonal storage.
This molecule has its interest, but should not be put everywhere. That said, this trend has waned a bit recently.
What is your view on the discovery of the significant hydrogen reserve in Lorraine?
I will look into this natural, or geological, hydrogen in order to study it. Naturally, from the point of view of energy security, hydrogen produced on our territory would be particularly interesting. Among the many questions, we ask ourselves: are the technologies ready? To what extent can it be produced at a competitive cost? We would also need to be able to estimate it, to calibrate in a more precise way the quantities of this potentially available hydrogen.
What advice would you give to an engineer, technician or scientist interested in these themes and who is entering the job market?
My main advice is to network. In medium or large cities, events, sometimes free, are organized by universities or different institutions, particularly on the theme of energy. This already offers the opportunity to listen to what is being said, but also to participate, meet people and start to make yourself known. This is totally different from what was happening twenty years ago, when I entered the job market. Now, we also have tools like Linkedin. Some people come up with relatively interesting thoughts and gradually build a network.
When my research assistants are close to graduating, we co-write papers together. They already have their small Linkedin network, on which we publish the report to promote it. Then I share it with my own network to draw attention to them. For me, more experienced people can act as mentors for younger people. It’s not always easy, nor given to everyone. I try to encourage these young people that I work with.
What does the collaboration with Techniques de l’Ingénieur bring you, as an author?
When I started working, I was at Peugeot. I was modeling the reforming system and I used a lot of Engineering Techniques documentary resource articles: on fuel cells, thermodynamics, etc. I was really an avid reader. Then I moved into a world where engineering was less important. From then on, unfortunately, I used the Engineering Techniques articles less. In the type of consulting company where I worked, we didn’t necessarily do engineering. But for me, these resources were very important. So, when I was contacted by Techniques de l’Ingénieur, to write an article not really technological, but more in my subjects: energy security, geopolitics, market monitoring[9], I was delighted because I have the greatest respect for this publication. In addition, it was the opportunity to write in French, which is very rare. The last time I wrote in French was at the request of the Ecole des Mines, for the Revue des Mines. It is, I believe, my only publication in French in two years. Let’s not even mention the period when I was at BP, no publications in French!
[1] King Abdullah Petroleum Studies and Research Center
[2] CGEP
[4] COP 28
[6] CCS : carbon capture and storage
[8] Gastech
[9] Geopolitics and hydrogen
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