2023-08-28 13:23:30
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Caption,
Spanish theologian José María Tojeira is a Jesuit spokesman on the Nicaraguan government’s crisis with the religious order.
Article informationAuthor, Gerardo LissardyRole, BBC News Mundo
1 hour
José María Tojeira knows well what it is like to work as a Jesuit in extreme conditions in Central America.
One morning in 1989, this religious man heard shots from soldiers who massacred six Jesuit priests and two women at the Central American University (UCA) in El Salvador, regarding 40 meters from where he was.
Tojeira was the provincial superior of the Jesuits in Central America and since then he has demanded justice for that massacre, for which in 2020 a retired colonel was sentenced to 133 years in prison in Spain and an open trial continues on the masterminds.
Now the priest has another difficult mission: he was appointed official spokesman for the Society of Jesus for the crisis that the order of Pope Francis is facing in Nicaragua, where the government of Daniel Ortega canceled their legal status and confiscated various assets, including the UCA of Managua.
Tojeira observes similarities between this way of acting and that of the Salvadoran government in 1989, although their ideological signs are opposite and the contexts are different.
“The violent way” and “the lie is an impressive point of coincidence”, compares Tojeira in an interview with BBC Mundo.
What follows is a summary of the telephone dialogue with this Spanish-born theologian and former rector of the UCA of El Salvador:
What does the decision of the Nicaraguan government to cancel the order of the Jesuits in the country and confiscate their property imply?
They have not totally canceled the order. In other words, they have canceled one of the various legal statuses that our order has, which contained two buildings: one where the Jesuits who worked at the UCA lived and a house for scholarship holders who had nowhere to stay.
That legal person was also used to transfer money from the provincial curia to Nicaragua to care for elderly Jesuits in the infirmary. We have already had to take some patients out of Nicaragua because we might not give them adequate care there.
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Caption,
The government of Daniel Ortega has confiscated assets of the Society of Jesus in Nicaragua.
This falls under the systematic attacks on the church and on those sectors of the church that have expressed themselves critically regarding the Sandinista government.
So this does not imply the closure of operations of the Society of Jesus and with the other legal entities, for example, the Jesuit schools in Nicaragua can continue to operate?
Exactly. We have two schools in Nicaragua: Centroamérica and Loyola. Each one has its own legal status. So the Jesuits continue to work there.
The same is true of Fe y Alegría, a chain of popular schools and high schools that are generally built in slums and impoverished rural areas. It has regarding 20 schools and institutes that continue to work normally.
To what extent are the Jesuits willing to remain in Nicaragua in this context?
Our decision is to remain in Nicaragua, unless they expel us. So far there has been no expulsion order.
We believe that we have a strong demand for support, evangelization, education and help in what we can do at the popular level. And we will continue.
The argument of the Ministry of the Interior of Ortega to cancel the legal status on Wednesday was that the Society of Jesus in Nicaragua did not report its financial statements for the last three years. What do they answer?
That always makes us laugh a little from the start, because it was something we already anticipated.
Every year we go punctually to present the information that must be presented. But, in the case of this legal entity, they systematically refused to receive the information.
And when we asked for proof that they did not want to receive it or a reason why, they told us: “We did not receive it, period.” Then they leave saying that this information was not up to date. It is logical, if they do not receive it, it is impossible.
Caption,
Tojeira, here together with the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights in 2017, led the demand for justice for the massacre of Jesuits in 1989 in El Salvador.
I think there was a position taken beforehand to keep our institutions vulnerable and in doubt.
What steps do the Jesuits plan to take now in the face of these confiscations by the Nicaraguan government?
We are studying the possibility of a claim in international institutions, call it the UN in the part of Human Rights or the OAS in Latin America.
We believe that it has been an arbitrary and irregular measure. So we are studying with lawyers the possibility of making an international claim asking for the return of the confiscated assets.
Do you think such a claim can prosper?
In general, very authoritarian states do not listen to the UN or the OAS. But we do believe that it is important that a well-founded and independent opinion be recorded as to how the confiscation procedure has been.
It cannot be that a violation of rights or an offense once morest an institution is made with a false accusation and nothing else remains.
International institutions at least help establish the truth. And later, because this dictatorship is not going to be eternal, claims can be made regarding something that has a legal basis.
What did the confiscation of the Central American University of Nicaragua mean for the Jesuits?
We had been working at that university for more than 60 years. It has meant a lot of effort from Jesuits, lay people and people interested in improving culture.
The great contemporary poets of Nicaragua were born linked to the UCA, within the great poetic tradition that exists in the country starting with Rubén Darío.
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Caption,
The Central American University (UCA) confiscated by the Ortega government was a space for the defense of freedom in Nicaragua.
It is a university that has produced knowledge and created culture, very open to social responsibility.
To remove it like this suddenly seems profoundly unfair to us. It hurts us above all because we believe that they are hurting Nicaragua.
In recent years, especially since the 2018 crisis, the UCA had occupied a special space in Nicaragua in the midst of protests, in defense of freedom of expression. The Ortega government accused her of “terrorism.” Did you expect such a measure?
We were always thinking regarding the possibility, because it was not the first university that they confiscated. The church had been confiscated an agrarian university that it had in Estelí.
The persecution once morest the church was evident. They hadn’t touched us yet because the UCA had a strong symbolism within the country, due to its prestige.
We thought that this protected her a little, but that at any moment it might happen.
The Jesuits had historical ties to the Sandinistas. When did this relationship start to deteriorate and why?
We started with some relatively important ties, because we collaborated a lot in the agrarian reform carried out by the Sandinista regime in Nicaragua and in the literacy campaign.
But the problems began in the second stage of the Sandinista Front, when it took power once more and especially when it decided to be reelected, because the immediate reelection of one term following another was prohibited by the Constitution.
When they change that constitutional point there is a criticism of the University and there begins to be a bad relationship that continued in the second re-election and especially from 2018, due to the violent repression of popular demonstrations.
You were rector of the UCA in El Salvador, where in 1989 you witnessed the murder of eight people, including six Jesuit priests. Is there any point of comparison between what was happening at that time in El Salvador and what is happening now in Nicaragua?
The point of comparison is the authoritarianism and the style incapable of establishing dialogues and seeking peaceful solutions.
In the Salvadoran case there was a civil war. But the reaction is always to eliminate the voice of the dissident, of the one who wants peace, dialogue and a negotiated solution to the conflict.
Caption,
The massacre at the UCA in El Salvador in 1989, during the country’s civil war, left a deep wound.
In Nicaragua, when the large demonstrations of 2018 took place, the UCA was in favor of dialogue and guaranteeing a peaceful exit from the regime, because the population was already fed up: that there would be free elections, which later did not happen.
These positions of dialogue and the search for peaceful solutions to the conflicts deeply irritated the military sectors, particularly in El Salvador, which were the ones directing the war, and the government sectors in Nicaragua, which are the ones also directing the repression.
It is the point of contact, although the historical contexts have been different.
Do you see a similarity in the way the government of El Salvador acted at that time with how the Ortega government acts?
Well yes, the violent way. Different types of violence, but the violent way and also the way of distorting the truth.
One of the things that we achieved with a lot of effort was that it was recognized that the Salvadoran Army had killed the Jesuits. The government version was that the FMLN (Farabundo Martí National Liberation Front) had assassinated them.
I believe that the Sandinistas are also lying: they say that we did not have the legal status data up to date and they accuse the UCA of terrorism, when what it did was rather at one point protect the people who were being shot at by the military and police forces. , in addition to insisting on the issue of dialogue and the peaceful solution of conflicts.
The lie is an impressive point of coincidence in these two facts.
The Society of Jesus is the order to which Pope Francis belongs. Do you think the Ortega government is also taking these actions targeting him?
The relationship between the Ortega government and the pontiff is not good. We can see it in statements from both parties: Mr. Ortega calling the Pope a dictator and the Pope saying that there is something in Ortega’s mind that is a bit like the Nazis.
On the other hand, the persecution of the church is evident. Ortega expelled the apostolic nuncio and threatened to break diplomatic relations with the Vatican.
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Caption,
Pope Francis, an Argentine Jesuit, has compared the Ortega government to “communist or Hitler dictatorships.”
This gentleman does not resist responding to any criticism made of him, however well-intentioned it may be.
The Pope, quite rightly, was concerned regarding the totally arbitrary imprisonment of Bishop Rolando Alvarez. It is clear proof of the persecution of the church, it is normal for the pope to complain.
Ortega’s responses have been outrageous and led the Pope to reach quite logical conclusions: that something is wrong with the brain of this Central American dictator.
So, do you believe that these measures that the Ortega government has taken in recent weeks once morest the Society of Jesus are also a response to the Pope?
I find it hard to believe that as long as there is no evidence in the demonstration. What I do believe is that there is persecution once morest the church in Nicaragua that includes the Society of Jesus.
These people, those from the Nicaraguan government, I think what they have is a generalized hatred of the church as a social and thought force that they cannot control.
And they want to control it at all costs, be it the bishops, the Society of Jesus or any priest who has a dissident thought.
I think it is a general hatred of the church and not so much a direct thing once morest the Pope. I think they hate the Pope too, because he has defended the church.
Why do you think diplomatic relations between Nicaragua and the Vatican are maintained despite all this?
I believe that breaking relations always implies a loss of prestige for the country that breaks them and that is why they have not wanted to break them, but they have been totally suspended.
In fact, to try to intercede for Monsignor Alvarez, the Pope has to resort to the support of (Brazilian President) Lula or some government that has some prestige or moral force over the Nicaraguan dictatorship.
Do you feel that you have received the necessary support from Pope Francis and the Vatican in general in light of the Nicaraguan government’s measures?
I think so. Of course, it reminds me a bit of what they say Stalin responded when they told him not to mess with the church and he answered: Where are the Vatican tanks and planes?
Caption,
Ortega and his wife, Vice President Rosario Murillo, “do not have the same support from the military” in Nicaragua, Tojeira says.
The Vatican has moral force, but it has only moral force. And in that sense I think the Pope is doing everything possible. Actually our force is a weak force, because morality is not the strongest force in the world in which we live.
Do you see any sign that the Ortega government is weakening somewhere? Or, on the contrary, are these signs that it is taking more control of Nicaragua?
Control is getting stronger. What happens is that, in social relationships, the stronger the control, the easier it is for there to be some kind of outburst.
So we do believe that so much control can lead to internal outbursts, not so much popular but within the system itself.
There are people in Nicaragua who, even though they are in government positions, realize that this is not the path. There is discomfort.
All the commanders of the Army and the Police have to request permission to leave the country. It is a control that they were not used to, which has grown too much.
On the other hand, Ortega is not the same as his wife: although they work very closely at the moment, they do not have the same support from the military.
Ortega is 78 years old, another factor that I would say will force a reorganization of internal power relatively soon. How they will do it is another matter.
So I think they have some cracks that are going to cause that strong concentration of power to explode in some way.
Hopefully it will be a peaceful outbreak and a peaceful way out of the current situation can be achieved.
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